>>Good morning and welcome to Global Perspectives, I'm David Dumke.

Today we are joined by Rory Duffy, a filmmaker who has made a documentary on the Brexit and its effect on Northern Ireland called A Fragile Peace.

Welcome to the show Rory.

>>Thank you for having me.

>>So tell us why you made this.

You are.

You were an actor.

An adjunct history professor.

You did some short films.

What compelled you to make documentary on Northern Ireland?

>>It started in 2018 when I went to the 20t anniversary of the celebration.

And while I was there in Belfast, I took a tour aroun the area and was told about this threat that Brexit potentiall might have on the peace process, whether a hard border would return.

And I started investigating that.

And then the question of would violence come back if some physical border returned to that island was kind of the seed of the film, came back to America and started doing some interviews.

And it went from there.

>>So we're talking about Northern Ireland, where there were The Troubles lasted about 30 years.

It was a conflict that killed 3,50 people, wounded many, many more.

But when you're talkin about the nature of the border and Brexi just for our audience, a little, tell us what what the EU meant to Northern Ireland, Ireland and the economy.

>>Yeah.

So that border is a gerrymandered border.

It's not a land border in terms of a mountain range or a waterwa that actually made the border.

It wa it was a drawn border by hand.

And so when the troubles, ended with the Good Friday Agreement, the kind of fre flowing of goods into Northern Ireland, the borde only exists in the mind still.

Really, when you enter the north, only your cell phone bings.

But that region has benefited so much from just its membership in the EU, its standard of living, that the threat to that coul really destabilize the region.

So that border is really lik one of the main sticking points, or it kind of is still to this day and the borders, whether it's between neighborhoods.

But also between countries and ironically, with Brexit, the, the UK, it's an island nation.

The only place that it actually touched another EU country happened to be that border that was so fought over during The Trouble and so it had the beginning of a story right there.

>>How did you tell the story?

Because there's been a lot of actual movies about Northern Ireland and books and documentaries about The Troubles and the conflict there.

How did you approach this story about Brexit?

>>Well, I knew I wanted to find a couple people on the ground so you can tell the historical, narrative.

You can get the political, talking heads as well.

But I wanted people who are daily having to deal with the impac or potential impact of Brexit.

So I was looking for a farmer, a politician and a young activist and through that lens, I wanted to tell the story of Brexit through how it actually impacted people trying to live their life, work on peace, but also maintain their membership in the EU.

And so I really wanted to try and tell the story through the eyes of people living on the ground rather than just, you know, historians.

>>So you ended up finding si individuals that you documented.

>>Initially, I wanted six.

I, I had three, let's say, from the Catholic side, and then I had three from the Protestant side.

I got over in 2019, October for the first Brexit day, and I shot and met them for the first time because a lot of it was just done through the telephone.

Buildin these relationships over time.

And so I got over there and shot with them, went back to the UK for Brexit, which was at the end of January 2020, and then was going to go back to the North to fil with the Protestant characters.

And that's when Covid hit.

And then, you know, we put ourselves back in that Covid mind.

It was going to be a month.

Was it going to be two months, was going to be six months.

And before, you know, it's like I haven't been in a year, two years, people's lives change.

And you look at the footage you have and go, okay, maybe we can just go back to these characters and tell the story.

So I just had to adapt.

>>What did you find when you talk to them?

>>The Irish are very funny.

They are incredibly welcoming.

It there's elements of a sad history there, but I found that they're incredibly smart.

They know what's going on.

And they don't tak the peace process for granted.

They don't take their the democracy and the peace process, for it's so important to them on a daily basis, even to the peace generation, those that did not grow up with violence, that they are fighting for it.

And it was kind of inspiring at the end of the day.

>>When you're telling a stor through it, through individuals, they're they're getting on with their daily lives.

They're not dealing with history every moment of the day.

They're trying to to make some money and provide for their family.

What were some of the challenges that that they were facing and that that they feared?

>>I mean, for Aaron, who's the young activist, you know, his education, job market potential, he was going into college.

Will I be able to work in parts of the EU?

Or am I just going to be, you know, not saying it's a bad thing, but, like, will I be just stuck in the northern Northern Ireland or even Belfast?

So his education, his future job opportunities.

For Damien, it was his farm.

The farms of the North are not the size of American farms.

You know, some of these farms in the Midwest can go on for miles.

Miles and miles.

And he can't compete with that market.

So he really needed his product to get into the EU.

And if he is removed from that, like, can you still be a farmer?

And so those kind of tactile, like the animals are members of the family.

This is a farm in my generation that's been passed down.

Will I lose my livelihood?

He faced financial ruin if a hard Brexit came in.

Because there's all these, environmental issues when it comes with farming, cattle and whatnot.

I'm just a kid from New York City.

I mean, I, I don't know anything about farming, but what he would tell me was that if I can't even milk the cows, it becomes an environmental hazard.

And it just becomes this domino effect.

And it just really showe how Brexit was a quick reaction.

>>Yes.

>>To an emotion-- >>Emotional reaction.

>>It was.

Yeah.

And they didn't really think about the implications on really the peace proces and then how it in fact impact Northern Ireland.

For Martina, it was just her political future.

She spent her life fighting, politicall for an Ireland that she wanted to see, and then to see it kind of removed from the EU.

And knowing that her district wanted to stay in the EU.

How do I continue to make that political fight, knowing that we're now been removed?

So there was enough drama there for a movie.

>>You mentione you talked to to to individuals from both kind of a Catholic nationalist side as well as a unionist, loyalist Protestant, side.

How did their identity come out in the movie?

>>Identity.

Like they're - it's incredibly generational.

I think the older generation really that went through the Troubles, identified with which side they were on and the fascinating element of the peace proces was that the younger generation saw themselve much more in a global identity.

I'm European as opposed to the old divisions that kind of older generations were plagued by, but also on the other side.

Didn't quite get to go into this into the film is that, you know Northern Ireland has a high rate of suicide right now, and a lot of it sometimes are people like, well, where do I sit in this, this community, this area, because I'm not defined by the conflict.

So then who are we in this post-conflict era, which is fascinating.

I wish I got to go into it, but I mean, identity is every like everywhere.

It's an interesting topic.

But specifically, there in a post-conflict region.

There's been such inroads made that it's incredibly hopeful.

>>So you'r you're a guy from New York City and, you know, Irish-American background.

But-- >>Yes.

>>There are many Irish-Americans out there.

But but if you're coming as an outsider.

>>Yeah.

>>An when we were talking off camera, you're telling me that it was it was it was a challenge to develop trust with your subjects.

>>Yes.

Yeah.

>>Whe did you know you got to a point where they were actuall telling you the story as they, as they felt it as opposed to what they wanted you to hear?

>>Well, trust for at least documentaries.

It took months to build these relationships because, I don't have a name, so to speak.

It's it does kind of benefit if they can Google your name.

You've been on a couple of TV shows, but for the most part, you know, I'm not backed up with, you know, a studio.

And who is this random person from New York who got my number through some way calling me and saying, well, I want to follow you and talk to you about what you'r dealing with in terms of Brexit.

And so to build that trust I mean, a lot of it sometimes is I benefit from a mother that is so proud to be Irish that she knows everything that's going on in Ireland.

And I kind of got that through osmosis.

So they would mention, you know, TV shows, references or towns and I knew them.

So even though I'm very American, I do have a place or Irelan is kind of a second home to me.

I went to college there at Trinity.

I love the people.

I feel very comfortable there at home.

I could live there with no problem.

I love that place and I thin knowing that, like I don't have this ulterior motive, I just want to understand and you do g through people like it wasn't.

I just spoke to one farmer.

You.

It's kind of lik finding that right relationship.

I want the audience to care about this person.

So you are kind of casting a film like, well, you know, are we going to fee a little bit more for a farmer that has young kids rather than a farme whose kids are off at college?

And, which young person, at least for me, is like more empathetic, right?

Because you need the audience to care about the characters, want to be, on their journey, and so you find the right person, and sometimes they just randomly show up at your doorstep like Martina, who there should be a film made on her.

Somebody, somebody go out and make that film.

I couldn't do it.

You do it.

But that was a random interview where someone said, you know, you should talk to her.

And she sat down and just you know, like blew the lens off the camera, like it was jus so monumental and fascinating.

I was like, oh my God.

But everybody else-- >>You had it at that point.

>>Oh yeah, without a doubt.

Just like I was so moved.

And but for Aaron and for for Damien, you know, I did go through a process of trying to find people and talk to organizations and okay, this person is a little to busy.

This person's open to it.

And it took about, let's say, six months.

>>You also, of course talk to some political leaders as well, including some who were in the Good Friday proces that that came to the agreement.

Did you find that the political leadership were talking on a different level than the average people that you were interviewing who were primaril the subject of your documentary?

>>Yeah.

You know, I think what really moved me, when it came to the politicians and this was just my experience, cynicism is so rampant in, in America these days.

And these politicians are there and, you know, they're different than us.

The politicians do care and I'm in New York City.

Congressman Neil is in Springfield, Massachusetts.

He is not my representative.

And I contacted his office and said I would like to speak to the congressman.

This is an issu that he has worked for decades.

And they open their door and they they, you know, almost in a greater sense, like, oh, you're an American contacting a Congress member.

And they fit me into the schedule.

And it was by picking up the phone to go, look, the representatives are at the end of a phone.

You like, you have a complaint or you want to sit down with them.

You can call the office.

And I saw that like they weren't really talking that differently than the characters they would have, let's say the idea.

And I would use that soundbite and then show it what they're talking about through, let's say, Damien.

So if Congressman Neil talks about, you know, what partition does to a society, you know, I can show Damien on the border going, you step here, you're in the UK.

You step here, you're in Ireland.

Like how do you partition this place.

It's a country road.

And so you can they're actually speaking the same language at the end of the day.

>>What has been the reaction, to the movie?

First of all, overall I think we'll start there.

Then I want to ask you after that how the subjects were you focused on in the documentary, how they have reacted to the final product?

>>Well, for the doc, I mean, the reaction has been overwhelmingly amazing.

I mean, I'm humbled by it.

It just finished its festival run.

It was going to do a year on the festival.

So it opened, let's say, in New York City at the Big Apple Festival in November of 2024.

And it did a year on the festival circuit.

And it got into 35.

It got nominated in 25 festivals, and it won ten, and it won in Germany, Ireland, the UK, it won the Best picture in the UK.

That one went a long way.

Usually a documentary doesn't win Best Picture, but I'll take it.

And it won in in the United States.

And I think it's timely.

Conflict is not an Irish story.

It's they don't have a monopoly on it.

I try to make it universal.

I definitely try to make it so that my, my wife would understand it, because you can make a film and not realize that you're making it for a very, very small audience.

Like, well, these are people that know, oh, they know this player.

They don't know that player.

I want to prove to these people that I know every little detail.

>>An insider's take.

>>Yeah, focus.

And my wife is Korean, and I wanted to make a movie that she could sit down, turn it on, get wrapped up into the story that the characters and want to know what happens next.

That's all that movies are, right?

What happens next?

And if I can do that, then I've done my job.

So it's talking about conflict in a much larger sense.

There are it's a timely film because, you know, we're seeing political division in the United States.

We're seeing, you know, righ wing movements in Europe rising.

And we're asking this question of like, you know, are there any, you know, conflict areas that have a successful peace agreement and it is the Good Friday Agreement.

The reaction from the characters in the film, I mean they like hearing that it won.

I mean, so it makes them think that they spent their time wisely with me, that it wasn't just some guy from New York following them around, and then he leaves.

You never hear from them.

It comes out ten years later.

Doesn't do anything.

We got it out in a good time frame.

And, you know, it's won and probably the the best thing is the people from the region have responded positively to it.

So I have friends from the north of Ireland that liked the film and said, you know, good job.

It took an outsider to do it.

Maybe, it gives a different perspective.

But, you know, we give the thumbs up.

And so that' that's always mean a lot to me.

>>I want to keep focusing on and more the film side.

But I do want to ask you a little about Brexit cause it' still being debated in the UK.

>>Yeah.

Ten year.

So it's ten years yesterday.

Something like that.

>>So if it if it would get reversed, how would that be greete once again in Northern Ireland?

>>I mean the North sits in I think they call it the dual dual markets where they're, they're still in the EU, but they're not in the EU.

They can still get like so Damien, still can get his products into the EU.

I think they were going to move it to Dunkirk.

That was going to be the entry point for EU goods coming from Ireland, which, you know, in Britis history has a very special place in Dunkirk right?

Now that's going to be where, products are going to be coming in.

So he sits in, the dual market so he, can still get into the EU.

But I think there's been a breaking down of trust.

And I think that it's Brexit has happened in my, understanding.

And my argument is that it has happened we've seen four PMs come through, the UK.

And a lot of the sticking point was that border question, but how reactionary and kind of you know, not well thought out.

Brexit was.

It happened they left.

I don't think there's going to be a vote to rejoin.

I think this i the kind of future for the UK.

But I think if a vote di happen, I think the North would vote agai overwhelmingly to join the EU.

>>So getting back to film now, this is your first full, full film documentary.

How was the process of making a documentary?

Do you want to stay in this space, or do you want to go into into a different... >>Oh narrative?

>>Yeah.

>>No, I like documentary.

I do, it's, you know, I always say I never want to say no, but the process is, exciting.

You meet so many interestin people and you get to step into those worlds in terms of, you know, like the filmmaking aspect.

There's a lot that's forgiven when it comes to documentary that I don't think narrative film has.

If you're watching a narrative film and the colors are off, or that you can tell there's a different camera, it might take you out of the illusion that you're watching a film, whereas documentary, you know, if something's a little out of focus or you can tell the color is a little off, or there's a big gap in time, audiences will forgive you because they kno that it's a different process.

And so this took me five years to make, and I, you know, things that I'm like oh my God, I can't believe it.

I don't have a different take, but you're on the ground, you're in the moment, you're exposing people like you're a fly on the wall, like it's it's not supposed to be so polished.

There's a kind of rough ruggedness, a documentary that I tend to like.

I mean, the films I love are the 70s film like of New York cinema, like, you know, Spielberg or even, The Conversation.

And that kind of grittiness kind of is that documentary feel that I love.

So.

>>So what do you what are your what are your next, next projects?

What are you what are you looking at doing after after this?

>>Well, now I guess if I say it on this show then it means I have to do it.

So-- >>What are you considering doing?

What topics?

Well, as a documentary filmmaker though, what makes a an an issue or an event worth pursuing?

So so what would make you go for it for a certain subject as opposed to others?

>>You have to have a good question.

So at least with Fragile Peace, the question of will violence come back now?

It hasn't.

>>And you have.

You had the Troubles there and you then had another issue on top of.

So you have those ingredients.

>>Yeah.

You had you have had it there and even though as you're investigating that question, the question is good enough that it allows other questions to form that could be interesting.

And so you have to have a really good question.

So, you know, there's a lot of ideas I throw at the board.

And it's like it's not much there.

The next one I'm going to be working on is it's called Memories from Ground Zero.

It's much more of an oral history project.

On the 25th anniversary of 9/11, my dad was a New York City Fireman.

And you know, kind of want to make it for him, for his firehouse, but also for my home of New York.

And I know a lot of documentaries are coming out that are going to be telling, like the timetable story, like this happened at 9 a.m.. This happened at 11.

This is a little bit more, kind of cubistick in terms of, here's a fireman.

This was his this is what happened to him.

It's not the official narrative, but this is what happened to him on this day.

Here's a cop, here's the EMT.

Here they are 25 years later, recalling this event and watching that discovery on their eyes.

It's invigorating because, like, they're talking about things that they haven't talked about maybe in 20 years.

And when they do it in front of the camera, you see that moment?

Oh.

Oh, yeah.

That person.

Oh, they've been, you know, sadly gone for 15 years or something.

So that's the next film.

And then I'm doing one on urban planning as well.

How we build walkable spaces to make our communities stronger because, I I personally believe America is isolating itself.

We're not talking to each other and we don't have dinner parties.

I think it was Biden's surgeon general who said, like, isolation and loneliness is a health risk in America.

And so I live in a city, I love my city.

I walk everywhere and, rather than, like, bureaucratically thinking we throw money at a problem, like, sometimes just building spaces, we can get to saying hi to your neighbors.

I know that's hard for New Yorkers to say, to say hi to people, but it is possible.

And it doesn't cost any taxpayer dollars.

>>That's a great explanation.

Kind of some of that, some of the ingredients you're looking for in this, but are you looking when you have a final product and you're winning awards right now with the Fragile Peace.

Is the goal to tell a good story, to preserve history or both?

Or and is this for the audience, or is this part of this for for your own interests?

>>Great question.

It's always on is always to tell a good story.

The history can always be fascinating, at least to me.

When it's in the middle of filmmaking, when you are alone in a dark room by yourself, not even perceiving like a moment like this happening for the film.

This is kind of wonderful.

And I never thought I'd be sitting here with you talking about the film.

If I could go back and tell myself when I'm just like looking at my door going, I don't think we're going to finish this.

In those moments, I'm doing it for me because it is just me in the room and I'm looking at it going, what do I like?

Oh, I like that, or that doesn't work.

So where you are in the stages kind of art is different.

Initially.

It's really history that drives me.

I love, you know, the idea of like pre-production in a documentary is finding a subject.

And then if you like the library and you like reading, it's sitting down with a cup of coffee and a stack of book and going through it and finding the seed of the story then making it for an audience.

Can I tell a good story?

And then the actual making of it?

It's for yourself.

Now.

It's out there and people are seeing things in the film that I can't even believe.

So it's it's beyond my control.

And people are telling me wha the movie now means, and that's kind of the next stage it's at.

>>Well Rory Duffy thank you for joining us today.

Congratulations on the film.

It's doing well.

Where where can people see this?

See that?

See the film?

>>Right now, it's, we're trying to get everything cleared for potential streamer.

So we're in that process.

Now that we've finished the festival run, you can visit AFragilePeaceFilm.com.

Where there's information, excerpts from the film.

You can rent the film there as well.

And there's reading material because I do want this film to it's not a definitive history.

It doesn't tell the whole story.

It can plant a see and then someone go, oh, I want to read more about Brexit.

I want to read more about The Troubles or even the 1916 revolution.

All that information is there.

But, they can visit the website there.

>>Well congratulations again.

>>Thank you so much.

This was great.

>>And thank you for joining us.

We'll see you again next week on another episode of Global Perspectives.