♪ MUSIC ♪ >>GOOD MORNING AND WELCOME TO GLOBAL PERSPECTIVES.

FROM OUR HOME STUDIOS, I'M DAVID DUMKE.

>>AND I'M KATIE CORONADO, WELCOME.

TODAY, WE HAVE WITH US, A PROFESSOR OF HISTORY AT THE UNIVERSITY OF CENTRAL FLORIDA, DR. LUIS MARTÍNEZ-FERNÁNDEZ.

WHO'S HERE TO TALK TO US TODAY ABOUT HIS SPECIALIZATION IN CUBA AND PUERTO RICO, WELCOME.

>>THANK YOU VERY MUCH, GLAD TO BE HERE.

>>WE KNOW THAT YOU HAVE VAST EXPERIENCE IN RESEARCHING CUBA, PUERTO RICO, AMONG OTHER LOCATIONS IN LATIN AMERICA AND THROUGHOUT THE WORLD.

TODAY, WE WANT TO START BY ASKING YOU FOR A BRIEF AND I KNOW THIS MAY BE A LITTLE CHALLENGING, BUT A BRIEF, A SUMMARY ON CUBAN HISTORY JUST FOR OUR AUDIENCE.

>>WELL, CUBA HISTORY IS VERY COMPLEX AND I HAVE A SPECIAL CONNECTION WITH CUBAN HISTORY BECAUSE OF THE REVOLUTIONARY PROCESS, MY OWN EXILE EXPERIENCE WITH MY FAMILY AND THE FACT THAT I'M HERE IN FLORIDA, NOT IN CUBA WHERE I WAS BORN.

IT IS A VERY COMPLICATED HISTORY, IT IS A DRAMATIC HISTORY AND IT IS ALSO A HISTORY FULL OF TRAUMA FOR THE CUBAN PEOPLE.

SO MANY FIRSTS, CUBA WAS ONE OF THE FIRST COUNTRIES IN THE AMERICAS TO BE COLONIZED BY SPAIN.

IT WAS ONE OF THE LAST COLONIES ALONG WITH PUERTO RICO.

CUBA HAD A MARXIST REVOLUTION BEFORE ANY OTHER COUNTRY.

IT'S A NEIGHBOR OF THE UNITED STATES, VERY INTIMATE HISTORICAL TIES BETWEEN THOSE TWO COUNTRIES.

>>I KNOW WE'RE STILL TALKING ABOUT HISTORY, BUT YOU'VE WRITTEN THAT THE BATISTA REGIME KIND OF PAVED THE WAY FOR ITS SUCCESSOR REGIME AND KIND OF MADE POSSIBLE THE CASTRO GOVERNMENT.

DO YOU SEE THIS HISTORY OF KIND OF AUTHORITARIANISM CONTINUING OR ARE THE ECONOMIC PROBLEMS OF CUBA, KIND OF GOT TO FORCE IT TO COMPEL CHANGE?

>>THOSE ARE IMPORTANT QUESTIONS.

AS A HISTORIAN, I LOOK AT CULTURE AND THERE IS SOMETHING TO BE SAID ABOUT A CUBAN CULTURE WHERE AUTHORITARIANISM HAS DOMINATED, BEGINNING WITH THE EARLY COLONIAL ERA AND A VERY SHORT LIVED PROCESS OR PERIOD OF DEMOCRACY IN CUBA.

ONE OF THE REASONS WHY HISTORIANS LOOK AT THE BACKGROUND IS TO SAY AND ANSWER THINGS SUCH AS WELL, WHY DID THE CASTRO REGIME SUCCEED?

WHY DID IT STAY IN POWER FOR SO LONG?

IT'S BEEN SIX DECADES NOW.

WELL, WE NEED TO GO BACK.

AND THE QUESTION IS WHO KNOCKED DOWN DEMOCRACY IN CUBA?

WELL, IT WAS NOT FIDEL CASTRO BECAUSE FIDEL CASTRO WAS HANDED A TYRANNICAL REGIME ON THE BATISTA WHO STAGED THE COUP IN 1952.

AND CASTRO CAME TO POWER WITH THE REBELS WHO WERE CONTRARY TO THE BATISTA REGIME.

NOW I WOULD SUGGEST THAT WE LOOK BACK EVEN FURTHER IN THE PAST BECAUSE BEFORE BATISTA, WHO KNOCKED DOWN THE PRESIDENT, PRÍO SOCARRÁS IN 1952.

WELL, WE HAD EIGHT YEARS OF VERY DEMOCRATIC AND VERY PROGRESSIVE GOVERNMENT IN CUBA.

ONE THING THAT IS IMPORTANT TO KEEP IN MIND IS THAT CUBANS AND CUBAN AMERICANS ARE ASSOCIATED WITH BEING EXTREMELY CONSERVATIVE.

BUT IF YOU LOOK AT CUBAN HISTORY, CUBANS WERE NOT, CUBANS WERE VERY DEMOCRATIC, VERY PROGRESSIVE.

THEY PUT TOGETHER A CONSTITUTION IN 1940, THERE WAS AN EXAMPLE FOR THE REST OF THE WORLD.

BUT IT WAS ALSO CORRUPT, UNFORTUNATELY.

THESE DEMOCRATIC LEADERS, GRAU SAN MARTÍN BECAME PRECEDENT IN THE EARLY 19, IN THE 1940S.

AND THEN HIS SUCCESSOR, PRÍO SOCARRÁS, THEY WERE WONDERFUL PEOPLE IDEOLOGICALLY, BUT THEY WERE VERY, VERY CORRUPT.

AND ONCE YOU UNDERMINE THE FOUNDATIONS OF DEMOCRATIC REGIME THEN YOU'RE OPENING THE DOORS TO SOMEBODY LIKE BATISTA, WHO THEN OPEN THE DOORS TO SOMEBODY LIKE CASTRO, WHO HAVE TO GO BACK TO THE ORIGINS.

>>WHAT DO YOU THINK MADE THE DIFFERENCE FOR PEOPLE TO SUPPORT CASTRO DURING THAT TIME WHEN THINGS WERE SO GOOD IN THE EYES OF MANY PEOPLE?

YET, WE KNOW THAT THE GROUPS THAT SUPPORTED IT, SAW THAT THEY WOULD BE BETTER OFF WITH A CASTRO LEADERSHIP, IF YOU WILL, CONVERTED INTO A REGIME.

WHAT DO YOU THINK CAUSED THOSE PEOPLE TO SUPPORT CASTRO AND HELP OVERTHROW BATISTA?

>>SURE.

I SHOULD MAYBE CLARIFY SOMETHING THAT I JUST SAID.

AND THAT IS THE FACT THAT BOTH WERE AUTHORITARIAN REGIMES DOES NOT PUT THEM IN THE SAME LEAGUE.

BECAUSE WHAT CASTRO AND THE COMMUNIST ESTABLISHED WAS A TOTALITARIAN REGIME BEFORE THAT, BATISTA, THAT WAS NOT TOTALITARIAN, IT WAS REPRESSIVE, IT WAS ABUSIVE, IT WAS ANTI-DEMOCRATIC.

SO I NEED TO MAKE THAT DISTINCTION.

NOW THE POINT ABOUT SUPPORT FOR FIDEL CASTRO AND THE REVOLUTIONS IS AN INTERESTING STORY IN AND OF ITSELF.

BATISTA TOOK POWER 1952, IT WAS A BRUTAL DICTATORSHIP, VERY CORRUPT.

INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH, BATISTA STEPPED IN, IN PART TO STOP POLITICAL VIOLENCE AMONG RIVAL GANGS, BUT IT BECAME VERY ODIOUS.

AND WHAT WE SEE HAPPENING IS THAT WHEN THE REVOLUTIONARIES TRIUMPH IN 1959, THERE IS VIRTUALLY A 95% SUPPORT FOR THEM.

THE ANSWER TO THAT IS THAT EVEN THOUGH CUBA WAS PROSPEROUS, IT WAS NOT THE PROSPERITY THAT WAS DISTRIBUTED, NOT EVENLY, CERTAINLY NOT EVENLY.

AND WE HAVE HAVANA, WHICH IS WEALTHY, PROSPEROUS AND STRONG MIDDLE-CLASS, HIGH STANDARD OF LIVING.

I WAS JUST TEACHING A CLASS EARLIER, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE HEALTH SYSTEM IN CUBA BEFORE THE REVOLUTION.

WHICH WAS NOT SOCIALIZED, BUT PEOPLE COULD JOIN SOME ETHNIC ORGANIZATIONS AND THEY WOULD PAY JUST $5 A MONTH AND WITH THAT THEY HAD FULL COVERAGE, MEDICAL COVERAGE.

THAT WAS AN EXQUISITE SOLUTION, BUT NOT ALL CUBANS WERE ABLE TO PARTICIPATE IN THAT.

SO WHAT WE SEE AT THE OTHER END OF THE ISLAND, THE EASTERN PART OF THE ISLAND IS WIDESPREAD POVERTY.

AND THE FACT THAT THERE WAS SO MANY PEASANTS WHO DID NOT HAVE ACCESS TO LAND, AND THEREFORE THEY WERE IN A VERY PRECARIOUS CIRCUMSTANCES.

AND ILLITERACY, FOR EXAMPLE, IN CUBA 1959 OR SO, IT WAS 75%.

NOW THAT COMPARED TO MOST OTHER COUNTRIES IN LATIN AMERICA WAS VERY HIGH.

BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE WAY ILLITERACY WAS DISTRIBUTED IN THE HIGHLANDS OF THE EAST, IT WAS HUGE.

AND VERY FEW SCHOOLS AND VERY POOR HEALTH CONDITIONS WHEREAS IN HAVANA, WHO HAD A CONCENTRATION OF ALL THOSE POSITIVE ASPECTS OF MODERNITY.

>>THIS REGIME THAT WAS PUT IN PLACE BY FIDEL CASTRO THAT STILL EXISTS TODAY.

YOU'VE WRITTEN THAT IT'S NOT COMMUNIST IN A STRICT SENSE, BUT A MORE OF A STATE CAPITALIST ECONOMY THESE DAYS.

WHERE SHOULD THE UNITED STATES POLICY BE?

WE'VE HAD POLICIES IN RECENT YEARS OF ENGAGEMENT, WE'VE HAD POLICIES OF NOW PULLING BACK FROM ENGAGEMENT, WHERE DOES THAT LEAVE CUBA AND WHAT DOES THE FUTURE HOLD?

>>AS YOU KNOW, THESE TERMS ARE BEING DISCUSSED IN THIS COUNTRY, WHAT IS SOCIALISM?

WHAT IS COMMUNISM?

AND THERE ARE DIFFERENT DEFINITIONS AND THEY'D BEEN MISREPRESENTED, I WOULD ARGUE, IN OUR POLITICAL DEBATE IN THIS COUNTRY.

SO CUBA, FIDEL CASTRO DIDN'T ANNOUNCE THAT HE WAS A COMMUNIST ACTUALLY BEFORE 1961, FIDEL CASTRO WAS ANTAGONISTIC WITH THE COMMUNIST, HIS BROTHER RAUL HAD MUCH BETTER RELATIONS.

ON THE OTHER HAND, CHE GUEVARA, WHO WAS A COMMUNIST, BUT HE WAS NOT APPROACH SOVIET UNION COMMUNIST, HE SYMPATHIZED WITH CHINA SO WE HAVE THESE TENSIONS GOING ON.

NOW, FIDEL CASTRO EMBRACES COMMUNISM WHEN THE ONLY PARTY OF THE REVOLUTION BECOMES THE COMMUNIST PARTY.

SO THAT'S ONE DEFINITION.

WHAT'S A COMMUNIST COUNTRY?

A COMMUNIST COUNTRY IS RULED BY A COMMUNIST PARTY.

BUT AS WE HAVE SEEN IN CHINA IS A WONDERFUL EXAMPLE THAT YOU CAN HAVE COMMUNISM AS BEING RULED BY THE COMMUNIST PARTY, WHICH IS THE SOLE PARTY AND IT'S AUTHORITARIAN BUT HAVE THAT CO-EXIST WITH CAPITALISM.

AND THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE IN CHINA.

IT'S SORT OF GET THE WORST OF BOTH WORLDS.

YOU GET THE EXPLOITATIVE AND ABUSIVE ASPECTS OF THE COMMUNIST REGIME, BUT THEN YOU ALSO HAVE THE EXCESSES OF CAPITALISM.

WHAT WE FIND IN CUBA TODAY IS, I WOULD ARGUE, IS A COMMUNIST PARTY RULE, BUT IT IS STATE CAPITALISM.

AND THERE'S SOME SECTORS OF THAT SOCIETY, PARTICULARLY THE HIGH RANKING MILITARY THAT ARE BENEFITING DEARLY FROM THAT CAPITALISM.

IT'S A CONTRADICTION BECAUSE CERTAINLY FOR THOSE OF US WHO READ WHAT THE ORIGINAL GOALS OF THE REVOLUTION WERE, THIS IS THE OPPOSITE, THIS IS THE OPPOSITE RESULT.

AS FAR AS US POLICY, I WILL SAY THAT US POLICY TOWARDS CUBA HAS BEEN ONE MISTAKE AFTER ANOTHER, AFTER ANOTHER, THIS GOES BACK TO THE 19TH CENTURY.

THERE IS A SENSE THAT CUBANS WERE INFERIOR, UNABLE TO RULE THEMSELVES.

WELL, IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT CUBA HAS DONE, VIS-A-VIS THE US OVER THE LAST 60 YEARS, IT HAS WON ALMOST EVERY SINGLE BATTLE AGAINST THE UNITED STATES, IDEOLOGICAL BATTLES, NOT SO MUCH, BUT THE PUBLIC RELATIONS BATTLE.

NOW WHEN THE UNITED STATES PURSUES A POLICY OF ISOLATING CUBA, OF STRENGTHENING THE EMBARGO THAT HAS BACKFIRED BECAUSE CUBA IS REPRESENTED AS THIS LITTLE DAVID FIGHTING THE HUGE GOLIATH AND THE REST OF THE WORLD SORT OF SEES CUBA UNDER A BETTER LIGHT BECAUSE OF THAT.

MY THINKING ABOUT US POLICY IS, DO WHAT YOU'VE NEVER DONE AND THAT IS TREAT CUBANS AS EQUALS, INTELLECTUALLY EQUALS, PEOPLE WHO HAVE AN HONORABLE TRAJECTORY, PEOPLE WHO FOUGHT FOR THEIR INDEPENDENCE, TREAT THEM AS EQUALS.

I DON'T WANT TO GET TOO POLITICAL, BUT WE GOT CLOSE TO THAT WHEN JIMMY CARTER WAS PRESIDENT AND WE ALSO GOT CLOSER TO THAT WHEN PRESIDENT OBAMA AND RAUL CASTRO BEGAN TO TALK ABOUT IMPROVEMENTS IN RELATIONS.

BUT THE KEY TO THAT WAS THAT OBAMA TREATED CUBA WITH RESPECT.

>>ON THAT NOTE AND IT COULD BE A DELICATE AND CONTROVERSIAL ONE, DEPENDING ON HOW WE LOOK AT IT.

WITH THE RESPECT TO THAT, YOU MENTIONED THAT PRESIDENT OBAMA OFFERED CUBA.

DO YOU THINK THAT THAT WORKED WELL BECAUSE WE KIND OF HAVE TO LOOK THE OTHER WAY AS UNITED STATES WHEN IT COMES TO HUMAN RIGHTS, FREEDOM OF SPEECH ON THE PRESS, WHILE WE WORK ON DIPLOMACY, TO BE ABLE TO MAKE OUR WAY INTO COLLABORATING AND BUILDING BRIDGES?

AND I SPEAK FROM AN ACADEMIC PERSPECTIVE TOO, BECAUSE THERE WAS MORE ACADEMIC PARTNERSHIPS, THERE WERE MORE AND TODAY WE SEE A BIG DIFFERENCE IN THAT.

SO THERE'S CONTRAST, BUT THERE'S ALSO WITH THE SANCTIONS IN PLACE NOW, A DIFFERENCE IN WHAT SOME PEOPLE WOULD CALL RESPECT, AS OPPOSED TO THE CLEARLY SEEING THAT THE HUMAN RIGHTS ELEMENT AND THE FREEDOMS ARE NOT THERE.

SO HOW IMPORTANT IS IT TO KEEP THAT RESPECT, BUT THEY KEEP THAT BALANCE, FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE?

>>I THINK THAT THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT.

I DO BELIEVE THAT AS PART OF THAT RAPPROCHEMENT BETWEEN THE TWO COUNTRIES AND OBAMA ADMINISTRATION SORT OF LOOKING THE OTHER WAY, IT IS CERTAIN THAT THERE ARE HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSES THAT SHOULD NOT BE TOLERATED.

BUT THE CUBAN REGIME HAS PLAYED THIS WELL SO THAT THEY APPEAR TO BE DOING A BETTER JOB.

NOW, I WANT TO BE VERY FAIR AND SAY SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE SAW DURING THE '60S, '70S, '80S, AND EVEN '90S WERE THERE WERE EXECUTIONS IN CUBA, THAT IS NO LONGER THE CASE.

I ALSO WANT TO SAY THAT THERE'S SOME PUBLIC RELATION, YOU COULD CALL THEM STUNTS, WHEREBY YOU HAVE A FEWER NUMBER OF CUBAN DISSIDENTS IN PRISON, THAT'S TRUE.

BUT THAT RESPONSE TO THE FACT THAT CUBA IS USING OTHER MECHANISMS.

FOR EXAMPLE, YOU DON'T HAVE TO THROW SOMEBODY IN JAIL, YOU JUST HARASS THEM, YOU MAKE LIFE DIFFICULT AND IMPOSSIBLE FOR THEM, YOU ARREST THEM AND YOU KEEP THEM IN DETENTION FOR SEVERAL DAYS.

AND THEN THERE HAVE BEEN ALSO SOME VERY STRANGE DEVELOPMENTS.

SOME OF THE DISSIDENTS HAVE DISAPPEARED, PAYA, WHO WAS ONE OF THE MAIN LEADERS IN THE OPPOSITION, HE DIED IN A CAR CRASH, STILL ALL VERY MYSTERIOUS.

I'M NOT SAYING THAT GOVERNMENT DID IT, BUT I'M SAYING THAT BECAUSE THE US AND HONESTLY THE EUROPEAN COMMUNITY, AS WELL HAS PUT PRESSURE ON CUBA, THEY HAVE CHANGED THE STYLE OF REPRESSION.

THE MEASUREMENTS ARE, WELL, HOW MANY NEWSPAPERS ARE IN CUBA?

JUST ONE, RIGHT?

THE MAIN NEWSPAPER, GRANMA.

THERE ARE OTHER MINOR ONES, BUT THERE'S NO FREE MEDIA.

>>IT'S INTERESTING THAT FIDEL CASTRO WHEN HE TOOK POWER, HE COINED THE TERM, "FAKE NEWS", BECAUSE THERE WERE OTHER NEWSPAPERS AND CASTRO WENT AFTER THEM AND ONE, AFTER THE OTHER, HE BROUGHT DOWN THOSE NEWSPAPERS.

YOU ARE JOURNALISTS, I AM IN THE MEDIA AS WELL AS A SYNDICATED COLUMNIST.

SO FOR US, THAT IS VITAL, IT IS A VITAL RIGHT, YET CUBA DOES NOT HAVE THAT.

SO, AND NOT TO MENTION THE ECONOMIC FAILURES OF THE REGIME, IT NEVER RECOVERED FROM THE SPECIAL PERIOD THAT BEGAN IN 1993 IN THE WAKE OF THE COLLAPSE OF THE SOVIET UNION.

>>WITH EVERYTHING THAT YOU SAID AND I'M SURE EVERYTHING THAT YOU'VE PUBLISHED, ALL OF YOUR WORK, CAN YOU TRAVEL TO CUBA?

DOES CUBA WELCOME YOU?

>>THAT'S AN INTERESTING QUESTION.

I USED TO GO TO CUBA AND SOME PEOPLE WOULD CRITICIZE ME FOR DOING THAT.

I USED TO TRAVEL TO CUBA FOR RESEARCH PURPOSES EVERY SINGLE YEAR AND I DID THAT FOR ABOUT 10 YEARS UNTIL ABOUT 2004.

SO WHY I VISITED CUBA DURING THE SPECIAL PERIOD.

NOW, SOME PEOPLE AND I RESPECT THEIR POSITION, THEY CLAIM THAT, "WELL, IF YOU GO TO CUBA, YOU'RE SUPPORTING THE REGIME, IF YOU GO TO CUBA, YOU SPEND MONEY THERE AND THAT MONEY GOES TO THE CASTRO REGIME."

WELL, MY QUESTION BACK TO THEM IS, IF I DON'T GO TO CUBA AND OTHERS LIKE ME, DON'T GO TO CUBA FROM THE OUTSIDE WORLD TO SEE WHAT'S HAPPENING, TO WRITE ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING.

THEN YOU'RE ACTUALLY GIVING THE CUBAN GOVERNMENT THE MONOPOLY.

SO I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT OTHER VOICES GO TO CUBA.

ONE THING THAT THAT IS VERY CLEAR IS THAT I USED TO GO TO CUBA FREELY.

I DID MY RESEARCH, IT WAS VITAL FOR ME TO LAUNCH MY CAREER AS A CUBA SPECIALIST BECAUSE IF YOU DON'T GO TO CUBA AND DO RESEARCH THERE, THEN YOU DON'T HAVE AS MUCH CREDIBILITY.

BUT EVERYTHING WAS FINE AND DANDY WHILE I WAS WRITING ON THE 19TH CENTURY.

AND PEOPLE WERE LONG DEAD, I WAS WRITING ABOUT SLAVERY, I WAS WRITING ABOUT A VARIETY OF SUBJECTS PERTAINING TO THE 19TH CENTURY.

BUT THEN A POINT CAME IN MY CAREER WHEN I SAID TO MYSELF, "LUIS, THE RECORD ON CUBA IS THE STORY.

PEOPLE WHO ARE FAVORABLE TO THE CASTRO REGIME ARE WRITING THE HISTORY AND THEY'RE GETTING AWAY WITH SO MANY DISTORTIONS."

I'VE MENTIONED THIS IN THE PAST, BUT THERE'S AN AMERICAN HISTORIAN WHO WROTE ABOUT THE CUBAN REVOLUTION AND SAID HORRENDOUS THINGS ABOUT CUBAN EXPATS.

FOR EXAMPLE, THAT WE LEFT BECAUSE AS THE MIDDLE CLASS AND THE PRIVILEGED CLASSES, WE LOST ACCESS TO CLUBS AND PRIVILEGED SCHOOLS AND FANCY RESTAURANTS AND DOMESTIC SERVICE.

THAT'S ABSURD, THAT'S ACTUALLY OFFENSIVE.

MANY PEOPLE LEFT CUBA NOT BECAUSE OF THAT BECAUSE THEY LOST FREEDOM.

SO IT'S IMPORTANT, IT WAS IMPORTANT FOR ME TO GO TO CUBA.

AND ONCE I STARTED WRITING ABOUT THE REVOLUTION, ONCE I PUBLISHED MY BOOK ON THE CUBAN REVOLUTION, NOT THAT ANYBODY TOLD ME, "YOU'RE NOT WELCOME ANYMORE," BUT I THOUGHT THAT IT WAS WISE NOT TO GO TO MY HOMELAND AGAIN UNTIL THINGS CHANGE.

>>SO I'M GOING TO SHIFT GEARS A LITTLE PROFESSOR, AND YOU WERE TALKING A MOMENT AGO ABOUT CUBA, THE CUBAN-US RELATIONSHIP AND HOW THE UNITED STATES HAS NOT TREATED CUBANS WITH THE DEGREE OF RESPECT.

AND IT'S REALLY DONE A LOT OF THE WRONG THINGS AND KIND OF TREATED HIM WITH A PATERNALISTIC OUTLOOK.

WOULD YOU SAY THE SAME THINGS ABOUT THE US RELATIONSHIP WITH PUERTO RICO?

>>YES, SIMILAR ATTITUDES.

THE MAIN DIFFERENCE IS THIS THAT CUBANS FOUGHT FOR THEIR INDEPENDENCE BEGINNING IN 1868, THE 10 YEARS, WAR AGAINST SPAIN, THEN A NEW WAR BEGAN IN 1895, ALL THE WAY TO 1898.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE NUMBER OF CUBANS WHO DIED IN THAT, DURING THAT PERIOD, CUBANS HAD CONCENTRATION CAMPS PUT UP BY SPAIN.

FEW PEOPLE KNOW THAT THE CONCEPT OF A CONCENTRATION CAMP WAS STARTED BY SPANIARDS IN CUBA.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE FACT THAT PERHAPS A 100,000 CUBANS HAD TO LEAVE IN EXILE BACK IN THE LATE 19TH CENTURY.

AND SOME OF THE STATISTICS ABOUT DEATHS THAT I'VE SEEN IN THOSE CONCENTRATION CAMPS, BRING THOSE STATISTICS UP TO AROUND 200,000 PEOPLE DYING IN A SMALL ISLAND, WHICH AT THE TIME HAD LESS THAN 2 MILLION PEOPLE IN ITS POPULATION.

THE HISTORY OF PUERTO RICO IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT, AND I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT I DON'T COME ACROSS AS PUTTING ONE DOWN AND THE OTHER ONE, UPLIFTING THE OTHER, BUT THEY'RE TWO DIFFERENT POLITICAL CULTURES.

THE POLITICAL CULTURE IN CUBA, HISTORICALLY HAS BEEN ONE OF MILITANTS, HAS BEEN ONE OF REBELLION.

IN PUERTO RICO, BY COMPARISON, WE DON'T FIND THAT.

NOT THAT PUERTO RICANS DID NOT WANT TO BE FREE, BUT THAT THERE WAS A DIFFERENT STYLE, WHICH I ASSOCIATE MORE WITH LOBBYING, WITH SENDING DELEGATES TO THIS DAY, WE SEE A RENEWED EFFORT IN ORDER TO CHANGE THE PUERTO RICAN COLONIAL STATUS.

AND HOW IS THAT HANDLED?

THAT IS HANDLED BY PLEBISCITES, THAT IS HANDLED BY EMISSARIES, THAT IS HANDLED BY LOBBYISTS.

SO TWO COUNTRIES THAT ARE SO CLOSE TO EACH OTHER THAT SHOULD HAVE MORE IN COMMON WHEN IT COMES TO POLITICAL STRATEGIES, THEY'RE VERY DIFFERENT.

AND THAT IS WHY BEFORE THE WHAT'S CALLED THE SPANISH-AMERICAN WAR, WHICH I'D RATHER CALL THE SPANISH CUBAN AMERICAN WAR, BEFORE THAT WAR WAS THE TELLER AMENDMENT.

AND THE TELLER AMENDMENT SAID THAT, OKAY, THE US CAN INTERVENE AGAINST SPAIN, BUT IT MUST LEAVE CUBA AS AN INDEPENDENT COUNTRY.

IN THE CASE OF PUERTO RICO THAT DID NOT APPLY, SO THE UNITED STATES TOOK PUERTO RICO, KEPT IT AS A COLONY.

AND ALL THESE YEARS LATER, IT IS STILL THE WORLD'S OLDEST COLONY.

SO THE TREATMENT IS DIFFERENT.

AGAIN, I GO BACK TO THE POLITICAL CULTURES THAT CUBANS HAD FOUGHT AND DIED BY THE TENS OF THOUSANDS IN THESE EFFORTS TO BECOME INDEPENDENT, WHICH DID NOT REALLY HAPPEN IN PUERTO RICO.

AGAIN, I'M NOT SAYING THE ONE PEOPLE ARE BRAVE AND THE OTHER ARE NOT, I'M SAYING THAT THE STRATEGIES WERE DIFFERENT.

>>WHERE DO YOU SEE THE FUTURE OF PUERTO RICO IN COMPARISON TO THE THINGS THAT HAVE HAPPENED IN RECENT YEARS WITH NATURAL DISASTERS AND SUCH?

AND WHAT DO YOU THINK IT'LL TAKE TO GET PUERTO RICO TO SUCCEED AS AN ISLAND, WHETHER IT BECOMES A STATE OR NOT?

>>ALMOST EVERYTHING THAT COULD GO WRONG FOR PUERTO RICO, WENT WRONG.

SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CHANGES IN THE TAX STRUCTURE, PUERTO RICO BEFORE 2006 HAD CERTAIN PRIVILEGES WHEREBY, IT WAS CALLED THE 936 CODE OF THE INTERNAL REVENUE SERVICE.

IN WHICH US CAPITAL, AS LONG AS IT WAS REINVESTED ON THE ISLAND, GOOD WOULD NOT BE TAXED, THAT WAS AN INCENTIVE, THAT WENT AWAY.

NOW WE SEE THE DEBT PRICES, WHICH EXPLODED IN THE YEAR 2015.

THE GOVERNORS SAID THE DEBT IS UNREPAIRABLE AND THEN ON TOP OF THAT, WE ADD THE POLITICAL CORRUPTION, IT IS JUST OUT OF CONTROL ON THE ISLAND.

THEN WE HAVE MARIA, AND THEN WE HAVE A SORT OF PEACEFUL, DEMOCRATIC REVOLT THAT TOOK PLACE IN THE YEAR 2016, THAT BROUGHT DOWN THE VERY CORRUPT GOVERNOR.

SO YOU ADD ALL OF THAT AND YOU SEE THAT IT'S AS IF THE 12 PLATES OF EGYPT HAD REACHED PUERTO RICO AND DESTROYED IT.

I'M NOT OPTIMISTIC BECAUSE ON TOP OF THAT, PUERTO RICANS WHO PRIDED THEMSELVES IN HAVING A CERTAIN DEGREE OF AUTONOMY, THEY HAVE LOST MUCH OF THAT AUTONOMY.

BECAUSE NOW, THE US GOVERNMENT HAS IMPOSED A HUNTHA WHICH MAKES DETERMINATIONS ABOUT THE PUERTO RICAN BUDGET, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT'S LOSS OF AUTONOMY.

IN THE SUPREME COURT DECISIONS HAVE BEEN MADE THAT PUERTO RICO IS NOT A SOVEREIGN STATE.

WE ALSO SEE THAT IN THE TREATMENT OF PUERTO RICO RECEIVES IN TERMS OF FEDERAL SUPPORT, HOW THAT IS FALLING LOWER AND LOWER.

SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT ALL THOSE FACTORS COMBINED, I AM NOT OPTIMISTIC ABOUT PUERTO RICO, A COUNTRY THAT I LOVE, A COUNTRY WHERE I GREW UP, WHERE MY FAMILY IS STILL LIVES, BUT I CAN NOT SEE THE LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL.

ONE THING THAT I DID FIND TO BE UPLIFTING WAS BACK IN 2016, WHEN ROUGHLY 1 MILLION PUERTO RICANS MOBILIZED AND SAID, "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH", AND THEY BROUGHT DOWN THE CORRUPT ADMINISTRATION, THEN GOVERNOR, ROSSELLÓ.

>>WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO END OUR INTERVIEW THERE.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US TODAY, PROFESSOR.

WE LOOK FORWARD TO HAVING YOU BACK AND TALKING AGAIN ABOUT CUBA AND PUERTO RICO IN MORE DETAIL.

>>THANK YOU VERY MUCH, IT WAS MY PLEASURE.

>>THANK YOU.

>>AND THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

WE'LL SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEK, ON ANOTHER EPISODE OF GLOBAL PERSPECTIVES.