♪ THEME MUSIC ♪ >>GOOD MORNING AND WELCOME TO GLOBAL PERSPECTIVES FROM OUR HOME STUDIOS.

I'M DAVID DUMKE.

>>AND I'M KATIE CORNADO WELCOME.

TODAY WE'RE HONORED WITH THE PRESENCE OF THE FOUNDER OF CUNY HAITIAN STUDIES INSTITUTE AND BROOKLYN COLLEGE SOCIOLOGY PROFESSOR, JEAN EDDY ST. PAUL.

WELCOME.

>>THANK YOU SO MUCH DAVID AND KATIE THANKS FOR THE INVITE.

>>SO PROFESSOR THERE'S A LOT OF QUESTIONS WE WANT TO ASK YOU.

OBVIOUSLY, HAITI HAS BEEN VERY MUCH IN THE NEWS OF LATE SINCE THE JULY 7TH ASSASSINATION OF THE PRESIDENT.

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN AS AN EVENT FOR HAITI TODAY AND WHAT DOES IT SUGGEST FOR THE FUTURE?

>>SO UNFORTUNATELY DAVID, HAITI, UNFORTUNATELY, THE GLOBAL NARRATIVE ON HAITI HAVE BEEN FOCUSED MORE WHEN THE COUNTRY HAS BEEN IN STRUGGLE, IN PROBLEMS.

NOT REALLY WHEN THE COUNTRY HAS BEEN IN ORDER LIKE STABILITY.

SO UNFORTUNATELY THAT HAS BEEN ALWAYS THE TENDENCY OF THE GLOBAL NARRATIVE ON HAITI, AND UNFORTUNATELY THE ASSASSINATION OF FORMER PRESIDENT JOVENEL MOÏSE, ONCE AGAIN PUT HAITI IN THE SPOTLIGHT.

>>CAN YOU TELL US A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT MOÏSE?

>>SO USUALLY WHAT WE KNOW SO FAR ABOUT THE ASSASSINATION, THE TRAGIC EVENT THAT I LAMENTED HAPPENED IN THE MORNING OF JULY 7TH, 2021, AND IT RESPONDED TO WHAT I WOULD CALL A TRANSNATIONAL CRIME BECAUSE THERE WERE FORMER COLUMBIAN SOLDIER INVOLVED, MEMBER OR FORMER MEMBERS OR PEOPLE WHO WERE TRAINED BY THE DEA IN THE US, AND ALSO THE INVOLVEMENT OF HAITIAN, FOR SURE.

SO IT'S LIKE A TRANSNATIONAL CRIME THAT HAPPENED AND THAT TOOK THE LIFE OF THE PRESIDENT.

ANOTHER FACT ALSO THAT IS IMPORTANT FOR OUR LISTENER AND OUR VIEWER, IS THAT THE PRESIDENT WAS NOT JUST ASSASSINATED, BUT IT WAS AN ASSASSINATION THAT WAS ACCOMPANIED BUT WHAT I WOULD CALL A CRIME.

BECAUSE THEY DID A LOT OF THINGS WITH HIS BODY.

SO IT'S LIKE IT'S AN ASSASSINATION THAT REVEAL THAT SOME SOCIAL GROUP, THEY HAD SOME VERY TOUGH ISSUE WITH THE PRESIDENT AND THEY USE THAT A WAY TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

AND THAT WAS REALLY UNFORTUNATE.

>>PRESIDENT MOÏSE HAD MANY DOMESTIC OPPONENTS AND OBVIOUSLY THERE'S FOREIGN INTRIGUES CERTAINLY IN THE ASSASSINATION PLOT.

CAN YOU GIVE US A LITTLE CONTEXT ABOUT WHAT HAITI WAS GOING THROUGH BEFORE THE ASSASSINATION IN TERMS OF THE ECONOMY, IN TERMS OF WHAT COVID HAD DONE TO HAITI AND OBVIOUSLY HAITI'S BEEN UNFORTUNATELY THE VICTIM OF SEVERAL NATURAL DISASTERS IN THE PAST DECADE OR SO.

>>SO DAVID, JOVENEL MOÏSE, BEFORE HE BECAME THE PRESIDENT OF HAITI, HE WAS UNKNOWN.

HE WAS NOT SOMEONE WITH A FACE THAT THE POPULATION KNEW WHO WAS JOVENEL MOÏSE.

HE WAS UNKNOWN FOR THE GENERAL PUBLIC.

THEN JOVENEL MOÏSE WAS INTRODUCED TO THE HAITIAN PEOPLE BY THE FORMER PRESIDENT MICHEL JOSEPH MARTELLY, AKA SWEET MICKY, A MUSICIAN THAT ALSO MICHEL MARTELLY WHO WON HAITI BETWEEN 2011 AND 2016... AND MICHEL MARTELLY, ACTUALLY GOT INTO POWER WITH THE HELP OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

AND MOST SPECIFICALLY WITH THE HELP OF THE US DEPARTMENT OF STATE AT THE HAND OF HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON.

SO THAT CAN GIVE YOU A CERTAIN CONTEXT.

SO THE GUY WHO INTRODUCED JOVENEL MOÏSE TO THE HAITIAN ELECTORATE, WAS MICHEL MARTELLY.

AND MICHEL MARTELLY BECAME PRESIDENT WITH THE STRONG SUPPORT OF US OR FOREIGN POWERS.

SO JUST THAT IDEA OF FOREIGN POWER IS VERY IMPORTANT BECAUSE FOR OUR LISTENER, THEY HAVE TO BE MINDFUL, THEY HAVE TO KNOW THAT HAITI IS THE FIRST COUNTRY IN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE TO ACTUALLY ACHIEVE A UNIQUE ANTI-SLAVERY REVOLUTION.

AND THE MOMENT THAT HAITI ACHIEVED THAT REVOLUTION, HAITI WAS PORTRAYED AS A THREAT FOR THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY, BECAUSE IT WAS THE INSTITUTIONALIZATION OF THE INDUSTRIAL CAPITALISM, AND CAPITALISM COULDN'T OPERATE WITHOUT SLAVERY OR WITHOUT COLONIALISM OR WITHOUT RACISM.

AND THE HAITIAN REVOLUTION THAT HAPPENED ON JANUARY 1ST, 1804, CHALLENGED ONTOLOGICALLY, THE RACISM THAT ACCOMPANY CAPITALISM.

SO ONE OF THE FIRST BAD THING THAT HAPPENED IN TERMS OF CONTEXT FOR OUR LISTENER, IT WAS IN 1825.

HAITIAN PEOPLE, THEY HAD TO PAY TO FRANCE, $21 BILLION JUST FOR FRANCE TO RECOGNIZE THE INDEPENDENCE OF HAITI.

WHEN THE INDEPENDENCE WAS NOT GIVEN TO HAITIANS.

HAITIANS TOOK THEIR INDEPENDENCE AFTER A BLOODY BATTLE.

THAT WAS IN TERMS OF INTERNATIONAL MORALITY.

THAT WAS IMMORAL TO DO THAT TO A COUNTRY.

BUT THE US, FRANCE, SPAIN, ALL THOSE COUNTRIES, THEY SIDELINED WITH FRANCE TO ASK HAITI TO PAY FOR THE FACT THAT THE COUNTRY TOOK IT'S INDEPENDENCE.

BUT LET'S MOVE ON IN THE 20TH CENTURY.

IT WAS IN THE CONTEXT OF THE MONROE DOCTRINE THAT WAS FRAMED BY THE PRESIDENT MONROE.

AMERICA FOR AMERICANS, THE MONROE DOCTRINE IS IMPORTANT FOR IMPERIALISM.

SO THE US INTERVENED WITH MILLIARY IN HAITI AFTER THE ASSASSINATION OF ANOTHER HAITIAN PRESIDENT.

HIS NAME WAS VILBRUN GUILLAUME SAM.

VILBRUN GUILLAUME SAM WAS ASSASSINATED ON JULY 28TH, 1915.

AND THE SAME AFTERNOON, THE SAME AFTER NOON, OF JULY 28TH, 1915, THE US UNDER THE PRESIDENCY OF THE DEMOCRAT WODROOW WILSON, THEY SAID US MAY [INAUDIBLE] TO HAITI TO OCCUPY HAITI FOR 19 YEARS.

DURING THAT OCCUPATION THEY CHANGED THE HAITIAN CONSTITUTION, BEFORE THAT, NO FOREIGNER, NO PEOPLE... NO FOREIGNER COULD OWN LAND IN HAITI, THE US CHANGED THE HAITIAN CONSTITUTION.

SO FOREIGNERS COULD START OWNING LAND IN HAITI.

AFTER THAT, THEY TOOK THE MONEY, THE RESERVE GOLD IN THE NATIONAL BANK OF HAITI, THAT MONEY WAS TRANSFERRED INTO THE NATIONAL CITY BANK.

THE MONEY OF HAITI ACTUALLY HELPED TO BUILD WALL STREET.

SO NOW IT'S VERY IMPORTANT IN THE PROGRAM OF GLOBAL PERSPECTIVE, TO HAVE TO GIVE THAT GLOBAL PERSPECTIVE TO OUR LISTENERS.

BECAUSE NOW, MANY PEOPLE... WE ARE START HAVING THAT CONVERSATION ABOUT OKLAHOMA, THE FIRST BLACK WALL STREET, BUT WE DON'T TALK ABOUT THE MONEY OF HAITI THAT PARTICIPATED IN BUILDING WALL STREET IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

AND UNTIL NOW HAITIAN PEOPLE DID NOT RECEIVE ANY KIND OF ECONOMIC REPARATION WHATSOEVER FOR WHAT THE US DID TO HAITI BETWEEN 1915 AND 1934.

SO JUST TO GIVE YOU...

IF WE MOVE CLOSER TO US, IT WAS IN THE CONTEXT OF THE WORLD WAR AND THE COLD WAR BETWEEN THE EAST AND THE WEST.

SO THE US FOR 29 YEARS, BOTH DEMOCRAT PRESIDENT AND REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT, THEY BACKED UP ONE OF THE MOST [INAUDIBLE] DICTATORSHIP IN HAITI FOR 28 YEARS.

THE DICTATORSHIP OF THE DUVALIER, WITH FIRST, FRANÇOIS PAPA DOC DUVALIER AND THEN JEANE-CLAUDE BABY DOC DUVALIER.

UNDER THE ADMINISTRATION OF RONALD REGAN, THROUGH THE CBI, THE CARIBBEAN BASIN INITIATIVE THE US WILL START THE PROCESS OF NEW LIBERALIZATION IN HAITI TO UNDERMINE LOCAL PRODUCTION IN HAITI.

THEN DURING THE ADMINISTRATION OF THE BUSH, HAITI ELECTED IN DECEMBER, 1990, IT'S FIRST PRESIDENT, JEAN-BERTRAND ARISTIDE, WHO WAS A FORMER PRIEST WITH A [INAUDIBLE] CONNECTED TO THE LIBERATION THEOLOGY.

BUT BECAUSE AT THAT TIME JEAN-BERTRAND ARISTIDE HE WAS ANTI-IMPERIALISM, ANTI-COLONIALISM, ANTI-LIBERALISM, THE US, THROUGH THE CIA, THE CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY, THEY ENGINEERED A COUP, WITH THE COMPLICITY OF THE HIERARCHY OF THE ARMY OF HAITI, AND THE COMPLICITY OF THE PRIVATE SECTOR OF BUSINESS WHAT WE WOULD CALL AN ECONOMIC BOURGEOISIE, BUT IN HAITI WE DON'T HAVE AN ECONOMIC BOURGEOISIE, THEY OVERTURNED ARISTIDE.

AND ARISTIDE CAME INTO EXILE, WAS SENT INTO EXILE IN WASHINGTON, AND IN ORDER TO RESTORE ARISTIDE INTO POWER, ARISTIDE HAD TO SIGN THE PARIS AGREEMENT.

THE PARIS AGREEMENT IS THE FRAMEWORK FOR IMPLEMENTING NEW OR LIBERAL POLICIES IN HAITI.

AND THAT HAPPENED UNDER THE ADMINISTRATION OF WILLIAM JEFFERSON BILL CLINTON.

THEN IN 2010 HAITI SUFFERED AN EARTHQUAKE, AND BARACK OBAMA WHO WAS TO BE THE FIRST BLACK PERSON TO BECOME PRESIDENT, BARACK OBAMA SENT BILL CLINTON IN HAITI TO OVERVIEW THE RECONSTRUCTION OF HAITI.

AND BILL CLINTON MANAGED $13 BILLION, AND THAT MONEY WAS MISUSED, THAT MONEY WAS NEVER USED TO REBUILD HAITI.

SO JUST TO GIVE YOU THAT GENERAL CONTEXT TO UNDERSTAND HOW FOREIGN POWER, HAVE ALWAYS PLAYED A NEGATIVE ROLE IN SHAPING HAITIAN POLITICS AND POLICIES.

>>PROFESSOR ST. PAUL, YOU MENTIONED THE UNITED STATES THROUGHOUT THE INFORMATION THAT YOU GAVE US, WHICH WAS VERY GOOD BACKGROUND.

IF YOU HAD TO SUMMARIZE WHY THE UNITED STATES HAS BEEN SO INVOLVED, WHY WOULD THAT BE?

>>THAT'S A VERY INTERESTING QUESTION.

WHY?

THERE ARE MANY REASONS FOR THAT.

ONE OF THE FIRST REASONS IS TO PERPETUATE WHITE SUPREMACY BECAUSE THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY UNTIL NOW, FROM 1804 UNTIL 2021, THEY NEVER FORGAVE AND WOULD NEVER FORGIVE HAITI, FOR SHOWING THE WAY TO THE OPPRESS OF THE GLOBAL [INAUDIBLE] BECAUSE THE HAITIAN REVOLUTION KATIE, WAS NOT SOMETHING THAT WAS MADE JUST FOR THE LIBERATION OF BLACK PEOPLE, IT WAS FOR THE LIBERATION OF EVERY PERSON OPPRESSED WHATSOEVER.

AND THE SYSTEM...

THE RACIALIZED CAPITALIST SYSTEM WE ARE DEALING WITH, CANNOT MOVE, CANNOT DEVELOP WITHOUT RACISM.

SO THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS SYMBOLICALLY.

THEY WANT TO PUNISH IN HAITI, CONTINUE TO PUNISH IN HAITI IN ORDER TO SEND A MESSAGE TO ALL BLACK PEOPLE ALL AROUND THE WORLD.

"OH, IF YOU WANT TO FIGHT BACK, IF YOU WANT TO CHALLENGE LOOK, WHAT HAPPENED TO HAITI.

DO YOU WANT TO BECOME HAITI?"

THIS IS A KIND OF SYMBOLIC LESSON THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY WANT TO SEND TO EVERY PERSON, BLACK, WHITE ONE, WHATSOEVER.

EVERY OPPRESSED WHO WANTS TO STAND FOR JUSTICE.

FOR RACIAL JUSTICE.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT IS IMPORTANT.

THERE IS ALSO GEOPOLITICAL REASONS.

GEOPOLITICAL REASONS, IF YOU TAKE THE MAP OF HAITI, HAITI OCCUPIES A VERY STRATEGIC POSITION BETWEEN CUBA AND VENEZUELA, CLOSE TO PANAMA.

SO THERE IS A VERY IMPORTANT GEOPOLITICALLY...IF THEY CONTROL HAITI, CONTROLL IN HAITI, IN TERMS OF GEOPOLITICS MEANS A LOT FOR THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY AND FOR THE US IN THIS CONTINUING STRUGGLE AGAINST [INAUDIBLE] HAITI IS LOCATED VERY CLOSE TO CUBA.

AND ON JANUARY 1ST THE FIRST DAY OF THE HAITIAN REVOLUTION BUT IN 1959 HAPPENED THE CUBAN REVOLUTION.

SO HAITI OCCUPIES A VERY STRATEGIC POSITION.

THIS IS THE SECOND IDEA THAT CAN EXPLAIN THE INTEREST OF THE US IN HAITI.

THE THIRD IDEA HAS TO DEAL ALSO WITH THE RESOURCES OF HAITI.

BECAUSE IT'S IMPORTANT ALSO IN THE MEDIA TO USE THAT PERSPECTIVE OF DECONSTRUCTION OF SOME HEGEMONIC NARRATIVE.

BECAUSE THE HEGEMONIC NARRATIVE HAS ALWAYS BEEN "HAITI IS THE POOREST COUNTRY ON THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE."

BUT THIS IS A BIG LIE, BECAUSE IF HAITI WAS THE POOREST COUNTRY IN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE, HOW COME THE US HAS THE...

THE FOURTH MOST IMPORTANT EMBASSIES OF THE US IS LOCATED IN HAITI.

WHY IS THE INTEREST OF YOU TO INVEST THAT BUNCH OF MONEY TO BUILD AN EMBASSY IN THE POOREST COUNTRY?

IT'S BECAUSE, HAITI IS NOT POOR.

HAITI, HAS A BUNCH OF RESOURCES, NATURAL RESOURCES.

ACCORDING TO MANY RESEARCH, HAITI HAS MORE RESERVE, PETROLEUM RESERVE MORE THAN VENEZUELA.

HAITI HAS URANIUM, HAITI HAS NATURAL GAS, HAITI HAS GOLD.

SO IT'S THE COMMON STRATEGY THAT IMPERIALISM HAS BEEN USING, WHEN YOU DISCOVER A COUNTRY HAS THAT MUCH RESOURCES, THE IDEA IS TO PUT US PUPPET, IMPERIAL PUPPET, IN ORDER THAT YOU CAN NEGOTIATE BETTER OR TOOK THOSE RESOURCES.

BECAUSE IF YOU ALLOW HAITIAN PEOPLE TO MANAGE THEIR OWN COUNTRY, TO HAVE SOVEREIGNTY, IF YOU ALLOW FOR INSTANCE, PEOPLE WITH STRONG MINDSET, PEOPLE WITH COMPETENCY TO BE THE LEADER OF THE COUNTRY THE CONDITION WILL BE DIFFERENT.

AND THE IMPERIAL POWER DO NOT WANT THAT, THEY JUST WANT TO TAKE RESOURCES FROM THOSE PLACES.

SO THE STRATEGY HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE SAME AS THEY DID IN AFRICA, FOR INSTANCE IN CONGO.

SO FOR INSTANCE, IS THE DESTABILIZATION.

TO PUT CHAOS SO THAT IT CAN BE EASIER FOR THEM TO TAKE THOSE RESOURCES.

I THINK WE HAVE TO COMBINE THOSE DIFFERENT FACTORS IN ORDER TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IS THE RATIONALE OF THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY UNDER THE LEADERSHIP OF THE US [INAUDIBLE] NOT USE FOREIGN POLICY TOWARDS HAITI.

>>PROFESSOR ST. PAUL AND ALL OF YOUR POINTS ARE VERY MUCH APPRECIATED.

A QUESTION ABOUT IF THERE IS ANOTHER SIDE, ANOTHER THOUGHT PROCESS IN HAITI, ARE THERE HAITIANS WHO SAY "HELP US"?

BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT THERE ARE COUNTRIES CURRENTLY WHO WOULD LIKE, OR AT LEAST IT APPEARS TO US THAT THEY WOULD LIKE US HELP OR ASSISTANCE, OR SOMETIMES EVEN INTERVENTION.

SO TALK TO US ABOUT ANOTHER MINDSET THAT DOES EXIST IN HAITI, OR DOES IT NOT EXIST?

TELL US ABOUT THAT.

>>YEAH, THIS IS A GOOD QUESTION ALSO BECAUSE IT WOULD BE UNFAIR AND UNETHICAL INTELLECTUALLY FOR MY PART TO JUST PORTRAY THE PROBLEM OF HAITI AS FOREIGN POWER.

WE ALSO HAVE TO DO A DIAGNOSTIC OF THE LOCAL ELITES.

IN HAITI, WE DON'T HAVE ELITE PARTY.

FOR INSTANCE, THE ECONOMIC ELITE... WE DON'T HAVE A STRONG ECONOMIC ELITE, A NATIONAL BOURGEOISIE THAT WOULD FOR INSTANCE, INVEST IN THE INDUSTRIALIZATION, IN CREATING JOBS.

NO IN HAITI WHAT WE HAVE, WE HAVE A CLASS THAT HAS CALLED THEMSELVES PRIVATE SECTOR OF BUSINESS.

YOU SEE BUSINESS [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] IN SPANISH.

WE SAY [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] THEY SEE THOSE ECONOMIC ACTORS, THEY SEE HAITI, THEY ARE MOSTLY LIGHT-SKINNED BECAUSE IN HAITI WE HAVE MOSTLY 99% OF THE POPULATION ARE BLACK SKIN, WELL, GUESS WHAT?

THE ECONOMY OF HAITI IS NOT RUNNING BY THOSE BLACKS SKIN.

SO IT'S RUNNING BY MULATTOS, LIGHT-SKIN PEOPLE OF LEBANON DESCENT.

PEOPLE OF ARABIC DESCENT.

SO THOSE GUYS, THEY HAVE ANOTHER COUNTRY, THEY HAVE OTHER COUNTRIES.

SO DESPITE THE FACT, SOME OF THEM MIGHT HAVE BEEN LIVING IN THE COUNTY FOR 100 YEARS, 150 YEARS.

BUT THOSE FAMILY IF THEY HOLD A HAITIAN PASSPORT, IT'S JUST FOR CONVENIENCE.

TO DO [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] TO DO BUSINESS IN HAITI.

BUT THEY HAVE THEIR AMERICAN PASSPORT, THEIR GERMAN PASSPORT, THEIR BELGIUM PASSPORT, THEIR FRENCH PASSPORT, SO HAITI IS A COUNTRY IN WHICH THE ECONOMY IS RUNNING BY A FOREIGNER, ALTHOUGH THOSE FOREIGNERS CLAIM TO BE HAITIAN.

BUT THEY DON'T HAVE ANY SENSE OF BELONGING TO THE SOUL, TO THE LOCAL SPACE OF HAITI.

THIS IS THE DIAGNOSTIC OF THE ECONOMIC ELITE, WE DON'T HAVE ECONOMIC ELITE.

WE HAVE THE DIAGNOSTIC OF THE POLITICAL ELITE.

THOSE POLITICIANS WE HAVE KATIE IN THE COUNTRY, HISTORICALLY, PEOPLE WILL SEE POWER, WILL SEE POLITICS AS MEAN TO BECOME WEALTHY.

NOT PEOPLE WHO SEE POLITICS AS IT MEAN TO PUT THOSE INSTITUTIONS AT THE SOUL OF THE CITIZENRY OR THE CITIZENSHIP.

THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND.

HAITI HAS HAD HISTORICALLY, A DISCONNECTION BETWEEN THOSE ELITE AND THE MASSES OF THE POPULATION.

FOR INSTANCE, THE MASSES OF THE POPULATION SPEAK HAITIAN CREOLE.

100% OF THE POPULATION SPEAK HAITIAN CREOLE.

BUT GUESS WHAT?

THE INTELLIGENT ELITE IN HAITI, THEY [INAUDIBLE] THEMSELVES IN SPEAKING FRENCH.

THAT IS THE LANGUAGE OF THE FORMER MASTER.

SO THEY DON'T USE THE LANGUAGE THAT THE MASSES...

SO THERE IS A PROBLEM OF COMMUNICATION BETWEEN THE ELITE AND THE MASSES.

SO LET'S TALK ABOUT A POINT IN THE RELIGIOUS ELITE.

THE RELIGIOUS ELITE, HAITI IS MOSTLY A CHRISTIAN COUNTRY, BUT THOSE RELIGIOUS ELITE, THEY SAY, "OH, WE EMBRACE CHRISTIANITY."

BUT THEY UNDERMINE WHAT WE CALL IN SOCIOLOGY, THE POPULAR RELIGION OF HAITI.

SO WE HAVE TO PUT ALL THOSE PIECES TOGETHER IN ORDER TO HAVE A MORE BROADER COMPLETE PICTURE.

>>FOR INSTANCE IF IN HAITI WE HAVE HAD VERY IMPORTANT ELITES WITH A STRONG VOCATION.

BUT FOR INSTANCE, VOCATION COMES FROM GERMAN [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] THAT MEANS SELF-COMMITMENT, SELF-SACRIFICE.

WE IN HAITI WE DON'T HAVE ELITE PEOPLE WHO ARE WILLING TO SELF SACRIFICE THEMSELVES FOR THE WELLBEING OF THE POPULATION.

HOWEVER, RECENTLY WE HAVE IN THE DIASPORA AND IN HAITI, SOME GRASSROOTS, WHO WANT TO FIGHT FOR HAITI TO HAVE AGAIN IT'S SOVEREIGNTY BECAUSE AT THE MOMENT THAT I'M GIVING THIS INTERVIEW, HAITI IS NOT A SOVEREIGN COUNTRY.

THE SOVEREIGNTY OF HAITI HAS BEEN VASSALIZED BY THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY.

FOR INSTANCE, NOW WE HAVE THE PRIME MINISTER THAT WAS SWORN TODAY.

BUT THIS PRIME MINISTER, ARIEL HENRY, WAS JUST PUT IN POWER BY THE CORE GROUP, NOT BY HAITIAN PEOPLE.

SO WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THERE ARE CERTAIN ACTORS, GRASSROOTS FROM BELOW, THAT ARE FIGHTING.

BUT THE MASTER OF THE SYSTEM ARE TOO POWERFUL.

THE POSSIBILITY TO BE CORRUPTED BY THE MASTER OF THIS SYSTEM OR TO BE KILLED ALSO.

IN THE DIASPORA ALSO, WE HAVE SOME HAITIAN AMERICAN, OR HAITIAN CANADIAN, OR HAITIAN MEXICAN, OR HAITIAN BRAZILIAN, AND SO WE WOULD LIKE TO RETURN TO HAITI TO CONTRIBUTE TO HAITI, BUT IN HAITI THERE IS A MAFIA... THAT MAFIA, ECONOMIC MAFIA, THEY INVEST A LOT OF MONEY IN POLITICIANS AND THEY PREVENT TO HAVE, FOR INSTANCE, DUAL CITIZENSHIP.

SO FOR INSTANCE, IF YOU ARE HAITIAN AND YOU GO TO MEXICO, IN ORDER TO HAVE A BETTER INTEGRATION IN MEXICAN SOCIETY, YOU TOOK THE MEXICAN NATIONALITY, ACCORDING TO THE HAITIAN CONSTITUTION, YOU ARE NOT HAITIAN ANYMORE.

IT'S BECAUSE WE HAVE THE PRIVATE SECTOR OR BUSINESS WHO HAVE A STRONG FEAR AGAINST FAIR COMPETITION.

THIS IS A VERY COMPLEX ISSUE THAT WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND, TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IS GOING ON IN HAITI.

>>ONE QUICK QUESTION PROFESSOR, AND THAT IS DESPITE ALL THE RECENT TURMOIL WITH THE ASSASSINATION OF THE PRESIDENT, ARE YOU OPTIMISTIC THAT WE'RE GOING TO SEE SOME POSITIVE DEVELOPMENTS IN HAITI IN TERMS OF THE ECONOMY?

>>SO TO BE OPTIMISTIC REQUIRE TO PUT MANY THINGS ON THE TABLE.

HAITI WON'T HAVE THAT STABILITY IF FOR INSTANCE THERE IS NOT ANY KIND OF CHANGE IN THE FOREIGN POLICY OF THE US, CANADA AND THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY.

AND THAT CHANGE WON'T HAPPEN ALSO WITHOUT A STRONG INTERNATIONAL SOLIDARITY OF MANY PROGRESSIVE NATIONS, MANY PROGRESSIVE CITIZENS TO HELP HAITIAN PEOPLE TO PUSH BACK, TO FIGHT.

BECAUSE IN THE CURRENT MOMENT WE ARE TALKING, THERE IS AN INTERNATIONAL WAR AGAINST HAITI.

THERE IS AN INTERNATIONAL WAR AGAINST HAITI BECAUSE AS I SAID EARLIER, THE MISSION OF THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY IS TO MAKE HAITI LAST A VERY CHAOTIC SITUATION, JUST TO SEND THE LESSON, "NEVER FOLLOW THE PATH OF HAITI."

BUT IF HAITIAN PEOPLE, ALSO IF THE TRADITIONAL CLASS...

MEMBER OF THE TRADITIONAL CLASS CAN FORGET FOR A MOMENT, THE EGO AND DO A MINIMUM CONSENSUS.

BECAUSE JOVENEL MOÏSE WAS ASSASSINATED SINCE JULY 7TH.

SO THEY WERE FIGHTING FOR POWER.

BUT NO ONE NOW CAN WORK ON SOMETHING IN ORDER TO OCCUPY THE PRESIDENCY.

AND CAN YOU SEE THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY OBSERVING THAT THE LOCAL ACTOR CANNOT HAVE THAT AGREEMENT, SO THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY IMPOSE THEIR OWN SOLUTION.

BUT ALL THE WAYS THE SOLUTION IMPOSED ARE COMING FROM THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY WHAT WILL WORK FOR THE INTERESTS OF THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY, BUT NEVER FOR THE INTERESTS OF HAITIAN PEOPLE.

SO DEFINITELY WE NEED A PARADIGMATICAL SHIFT.

WE NEED A CHANGE IN THE POLITICAL CULTURE OF THE ELITE.

BUT A POLITICAL CULTURE DOES NOT CHANGE FROM MORNING TO TOMORROW.

IT WILL REQUIRE A TIME.

DEFINITELY, WE WILL NEED MORE TO EDUCATE PEOPLE ABOUT HAITI, EDUCATE PEOPLE ON THE GLOBAL STAGE ABOUT HAITI, BUT ALSO EDUCATING HAITIAN PEOPLE IN HAITI.

THE MEDIA THEY NEED TO DO A BETTER JOB.

FOR INSTANCE, MANY OF THE MEDIA, THEY ARE A SELL OUT, BECAUSE THEY ARE IN THE POCKETS OF THE MOST REPUGNANT ECONOMIC ELITES IN HAITI.

WE NEED A NEW CLASS OF INTELLECTUAL IN HAITI.

WE NEED A NEW CLASS OF INTELLECTUAL ELITE, WE NEED A NEW CLASS OF CULTURAL ELITE, WE NEED A NEW CLASS OF POLITICIANS.

IT WILL TAKE TIME, BUT IT WILL TAKE TIME...

BUT HAITIANS FIRST, WE NEED TO HAVE A CLEAR CONSCIOUSNESS ABOUT THE LEGACY OF THE INDEPENDENCE.

WE NEED TO KNOW WHO WE ARE, WHAT WAS THE SENSE OF THIS SACRIFICE THAT OUR ANCESTORS DID, IN ORDER TO GIVE US HAITI.

AND WE CANNOT ACHIEVE THAT WITHOUT ANY EDUCATION FOCUSED ON THE EMANCIPATION [INAUDIBLE] BUILDING PROCESS OF WHAT I WOULD CALL, EMANCIPATED CITIZENSHIP.

>>PROFESSOR ST. PAUL, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR COMMENTS.

WE WISH THE BEST FOR THE PEOPLE OF HAITI AND HOPE THAT THEY CAN CHOOSE THEIR OWN DESTINY GOING FORWARD.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

>>THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

>>AND THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

WE'LL SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEK.

ON ANOTHER EPISODE OF GLOBAL PERSPECTIVES.