♪ MUSIC ♪ >>GOOD MORNING AND WELCOME TO GLOBAL PERSPECTIVES FROM MY HOME STUDIO I'M DAVID DUMKE.

>>AND I'M KATIE CORNETTO.

>>TODAY WE ARE JOINED BY THE FORMER PRIME MINISTER OF IRELAND WHO SERVED FROM 1997 TO 2008.

BERTIE AHERN WAS INSTRUMENTAL IN THE GOOD FRIDAY AGREEMENT, WHICH BROUGHT PEACE TO NORTHERN IRELAND.

HE OVERSAW THE IRISH ECONOMIES RAPID GROWTH, AND HE'S BEEN INSTRUMENTAL IN THE EUROPEAN UNION.

FROM DUBLIN THANK YOU FOR JOINING US MR PRIME MINISTER.

>>GOOD MORNING TO YOU DAVID AND KATIE NICE TO BE ON YOUR PROGRAM.

>>THANK YOU.

SO I WANT TO START WITH IRELAND'S ECONOMY HAS BEEN SO TIED TO THE UNITED KINGDOM, AND YOU'RE ALSO A MEMBER OF THE EU.

SO WHAT ARE THE REPERCUSSIONS OF BREXIT ON IRELAND AND A LITTLE FURTHER, WHAT DOES BREXIT MEAN FOR THE POSSIBILITY OF IRISH UNITY WITH NORTHERN IRELAND?

>>WELL I SUPPOSE THE FIRST THING IN OUR VIEW, BREXIT IS BAD FOR EVERYBODY.

IT'S BAD FOR BRITAIN IN OUR VIEW, WE RESPECT THEIR VOTE, BUT WE DON'T SEE THE GREAT BENEFITS FOR THEM.

FOR MOST IN OUR PERSPECTIVE IT'S VERY BAD BECAUSE WE DO A HUGE AMOUNT OF BUSINESS WITH THE UK.

IT'S NOT WHAT IT USED TO BE HISTORICALLY, MAYBE ABOUT 20%, 25% OF OUR TRADE NOW, BUT IT'S STILL A CLOSE MARKET AND PARTICULARLY FOR AGRICULTURE AND FOOD PRODUCTS.

AND A LOT OF THE SMALLER SME KIND OF BUSINESSES THAT DON'T GO OUTSIDE OF A DISTANCE, THEY EXPORT TO THE UK, TRADE WITH UK.

AND OF COURSE FOR THE EUROPEAN UNION, WE THINK THAT ANY BREAK UP OF THE EUROPEAN UNION IS NOT GOOD.

SO OVERALL THE ASSESSMENT IN IRELAND AND THIS IS BACKED UP BY SEVERAL EUROPEAN AND INDEPENDENT ECONOMIC ANALYSIS.

>>SO THIS ONE WE HAVE TO LIVE WITH IT THEY'VE MADE THAT DECISION.

THE PROBLEMS IT CREATES IS A HUGE AMOUNT OF OUR GOALS, NOW WILL HAVE TO GO ACROSS THE UK.

YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH ALL THE REGULATORY ARRANGEMENTS, ALL THE BUREAUCRACY AND PAPERWORK THAT WILL BE THERE FOR HAULIERS, FOR EXPORTERS, FOR IMPORTERS.

AND OF COURSE IT'LL CREATE THE DIFFICULTIES FOR ALL OF THE OTHER COUNTRIES IN EUROPE THOUGH.

I THINK IT'S GENERALLY RECOGNIZED, UNANIMOUSLY RECOGNIZED NOW I THINK A FEW YEARS AFTER BREXIT VOTE OF 2016, THAT WE'RE THE MOST AFFECTED.

WE HAVE TO GET ON WITH IT, BUT IT'S BUREAUCRACY, IT'S REGULATION, IT'S NOT HAVING THE SAME RULES THAT WE DID BEFORE.

AND THE UK, THEY'RE UNCERTAIN IN THE UK, GET INTO UK, HOW THEY'RE GOING TO HANDLE BREXIT WHEN THEY'VE FINALLY LEFT, WHEN THE TRANSITION PERIOD ENDS ON THE 31ST OF DECEMBER.

SO ALL IN ALL IT CREATES UNCERTAINTY FOR US AND CERTAINLY IS SOMETHING THAT WE COULD HAVE DONE WITHOUT.

>>COULD THERE BE A SILVER LINING THOUGH?

I KNOW BREXIT WAS NOT POPULAR IN NORTHERN IRELAND.

COULD THIS BE BECAUSE OF BREXIT?

COULD YOU HAVE MORE UNITY OF MIND BETWEEN NATIONALISTS AND UNIONISTS?

>>I THINK WHAT BREXIT HAS CERTAINLY DONE UNDER QUESTION OF UNIFICATIONS, IT HAS PUT IT ON THE AGENDA LIKE IT NEVER WAS BEFORE, PROBABLY DECADES AGO SINCE THERE WAS SO MUCH TALK ABOUT UNIFICATION.

THOUGH THE GOOD FRIDAY AGREEMENT HAS A CERTAIN POSITION, THAT WHEN THE PEOPLE OF NORTHERN IRELAND WITHOUT ANY INTERFERENCE FROM EITHER FROM THE SOUTH OF IRELAND OR FROM BRITAIN, MAKE A DECISION THAT WOULD BE HONORED BY ALL SIDES.

BUT I WOULD LOVE TO SAY TO YOU DAVID, THAT THERE WAS A BIG CHANGE OF HEART BY THE UNIONISTS AND LOYALISTS COMMUNITIES IN NORTHERN IRELAND.

AND THAT IS NOT THERE I THINK THERE'S MORE DEBATE, JUST MORE DISCUSSION IT'S BEEN ARTICULATED IN UNIVERSITY CAMPUSES AND OTHERS, BUT THERE IS NOT A CHANGE OF FEELING.

I THINK THE UNIONISTS MAJORITY AND IT'S JUST ABOUT MAJORITY NOWADAYS, WILL STILL SEE THEMSELVES PART OF THE UNITED KINGDOM.

THE NATIONALIST MINORITY WHICH IS A VERY SIZABLE MINORITY NOW, STILL SEE THEMSELVES ALIGNED TO DUBLIN AS THEY SEE THE DUBLIN GOVERNMENT THE REPUBLIC OF IRELAND.

>>DO YOU THINK THAT THAT WOULD CHANGE FOR ANY PARTICULAR REASON?

WHAT WOULD MAKE THAT CHANGE FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE ACTUALLY HAPPEN?

THEY'RE INDIVIDUALISTS, THEY SEE THEMSELVES SPECIFICALLY THE WAY THAT THEY WERE BEFORE, EVEN THOUGH THESE CHANGES HAVE HAPPENED, WHAT DO YOU THINK WOULD CREATE THAT UNIFICATION THAT'S NEEDED?

>>WELL I THINK THERE ARE A NUMBER OF THINGS.

FROM THE ECONOMIC POINT OF VIEW, THE TRADE POINT OF VIEW, I THINK BUSINESS PEOPLE IN NORTHERN IRELAND, THEY LIKED THE ORIGINAL THERESA MAY AGREEMENT, AND THEY PROBABLY LIKE THE WITHDRAWAL AGREEMENT.

THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN PREFERRED WITH THE THERESA MAY'S PROPOSALS BECAUSE THAT ALLOWED EFFECTIVELY NORTHERN IRELAND TO BE ABLE TO WORK WITH THE UNITED KINGDOM, THE REST OF UNITED KINGDOM, AND ALSO TO WORK WITH THE EUROPEAN UNION.

AND SO THEY HAD A BIT OF JAM ON BOTH SIDES OF THE BREAD.

THEY HAD A LOT OF THE ADVANTAGES OF TRADING WITH UNITED KINGDOM, WHICH IS THEIR BIG TRADE MARKET, THERE'S NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT MORE SO THAN THE REPUBLIC.

AND THEY HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO TRADE WITH EUROPEAN UNION AS THEY DID BEFORE.

NOW THAT WAS CHANGED WHEN THE BACKSTOP CHANGED, THE FAMOUS BACKSTOP, THAT MEANT THAT THE UNITED KINGDOM STILL HAD A DIFFERENT RELATIONSHIP WITH NORTHERN IRELAND THAN THEY HAD WITH ANYWHERE ELSE.

>>AND NORTHERN IRELAND HAD A DIFFERENT RELATIONSHIP WITH EUROPEAN UNION.

SO IT'S THAT STEEP ECONOMIC POINT OF VIEW BUT I THINK WHERE THE DIFFICULTY IS, I USED THE HISTORICAL POSITION, THE OLD DIVIDE, AND THAT HASN'T SWITCHED MUCH.

I THINK IT IS MAKING MORE SENSE TO THE YOUNGER GENERATION, AND WHEN WE HAVE COVID-19 NOW, PEOPLE ARE SAYING THAT IF WE HAD A MORE UNIFIED SYSTEM FOR HEALTH, WE WOULDN'T HAVE THE DIFFICULTIES ALONG THE BORDER WHERE WE'VE BIG INCIDENTS OF COVID-19 ON BOTH SIDES OF THE BORDER.

>>SO I THINK OLDER PEOPLE ARE SEEING THAT.

ARE THEY CHANGING?

ARE THEY SAYING THEY WOULD LIKE A UNITED IRELAND TOMORROW?

NO THEY'RE NOT.

AND NOW TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION KATIE, I THINK THE BIG ISSUE THIS WILL HAVE TO BE OVER MAYBE A GENERATION OF PERSUADING, OF WORKING TOGETHER OF CAJOLING PEOPLE, SHOWING THAT WE'RE NOT ENEMIES, THAT WE CAN SHARE THIS SMALL LITTLE SPACE IN THE WORLD, AND THAT WE CAN COMMUNICATE AND WORK TO SHARE A DIALOGUE AND TO UNDERSTAND EACH OTHER'S TRADITIONS.

UNFORTUNATELY IN MY ESTIMATION, 23 YEARS ON FROM THE GOOD FRIDAY AGREEMENT, WE'RE STILL A LONG WAY TO GO AND THAT CULTURAL CHANGE, THAT IDENTITY CHANGE, THAT'S GOING TO TAKE ANOTHER GOOD PERIOD OF TIME.

>>LET'S GO BACK TO THAT TIME WHEN YOU HELPED BROKER THE GOOD FRIDAY AGREEMENTS.

WHAT WERE SOME OF THE INGREDIENTS THAT MADE YOU SUCCESSFUL THAT THIS HAS BEEN A LONG STANDING CONFLICT AND IT INVOLVED BOTH POLITICAL DIFFERENCES, BUT ALSO DIFFERENCES OF IDENTITY THAT YOU JUST REFERRED TO?

>>WELL I THINK A NUMBER OF THINGS, BUT NOT TO GO THROUGH THEM ALL.

THE FIRST, I THINK WE WERE LUCKY THAT BILL CLINTON WAS THERE, TONY BLAIR WAS THERE, AND I WAS THERE AND THE THREE OF US HAD GOT ON WELL.

WE PERSONALLY HAVE GOOD CHEMISTRY BETWEEN US, WE WERE ABLE TO DIFFER PARTICULARLY TONY BLAIR AND I WITHOUT ARGUING, WE WERE ABLE TO DEBATE THE ISSUES AND WORK TOGETHER.

AND WE DIDN'T WORK SEPARATELY WHILE I OBVIOUSLY WORKED CLOSELY WITH NATIONALISTS AND REPUBLICANS, AND HE WORKED WITH UNIONISTS AND LOYALISTS.

WE TENDED TO HAVE MOST OF OUR MEETINGS, PROBABLY 90% OF OUR MEETINGS TOGETHER SO THAT NOBODY COULD PLAY US OFF, AND THAT HELPED IN THE NEGOTIATION PROCESS.

AS WELL AS THAT BOTH TONY BLAIR AND I DECIDED FROM DAY ONE, WHEN WE WERE IN OUR POSITION, WHEN WE WERE WORKING ON WHAT WE WOULD DO, IF WE WERE ELECTED THE PARTY OF '97, WE DECIDED THAT WE'D GIVE THIS ONE HUGE SHOT AND THEN WE'D SEE WHERE WE WERE.

>>AND IF WE WERE GETTING NOWHERE, I SUPPOSE WE WOULD HAVE MOVED ON WITH WHAT... WE DECIDED THAT WE WOULD TRY AND GET EVERYONE TO NEGOTIATION THE TABLE.

I THINK THE BIGGEST THING WHEN YOU LOOK BACK NOW, WHY OTHERS FAIL, WE SUCCEEDED.

WAS THAT... WE TOOK THE CHANCE AND IT WAS A CHANCE OF INCLUSIVITY.

WE BROUGHT THOSE WHO HAD BEEN INVOLVED IN VIOLENCE FROM THE REPUBLICAN SIDE, THOSE WHO WERE CLOSE TO THE [INAUDIBLE], AND THOSE WHO WERE CLOSE TO THE LOYALISTS, FROM THE ALSO DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND THE PROGRESSIVE ALTERNATIVE PARTY, WE BROUGHT THEM INTO THE TALKS.

ONCE THEY SIGNED UP THE GEORGE MITCHELL'S PRINCIPLES OF NONVIOLENCE.

>>NOW THAT WASN'T PERFECT I MEAN, THESE PEOPLE DIDN'T SAY ONE DAY WE'RE ALL INVOLVED IN VIOLENCE AND THE NEXT DAY WE'RE ALL PEACEFUL, UNFORTUNATELY IT WASN'T SO EASY.

SO THERE WAS THAT GRAY AREA THAT WE HAVE TO MANEUVER AROUND.

BUT TO ANSWER THE QUESTION I THINK LOOKING BACK NOW QUARTER OF A CENTURY, IT WAS THAT WE HAD AN INCLUSIVE PROCESS, AND THOSE WHO HAD BEEN ENGAGED IN VIOLENCE, OR AT LEAST THOSE WHO REPRESENTED THEM POLITICALLY, WE BROUGHT THEM INTO THE PROCESS.

THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN IN THE SEVENTIES OR IN THE EIGHTIES WHEN ALL THEIR EFFORTS WERE MADE.

>>HOW DID YOU CREATE THAT LEVEL OF INCLUSIVITY WHEN THE TWO SIDES WERE SO SET IN THEIR WAYS?

WHAT DO YOU THINK STANDS OUT?

YOU MENTIONED GOING TO MEETINGS TOGETHER, I THINK THAT THAT CREATES A PERCEPTION OF A START OF UNIFICATION.

BUT WHAT ELSE DO YOU THINK BEHIND THE SCENES HAPPENED TO GET PEOPLE TO REALIZE THAT THAT WAS THE WAY TO GO?

>>WELL I THINK MAYBE WE DIDN'T REALIZE IT AT THE TIME, BUT I THINK THE FACT THAT WE WERE OPEN, WE SPOKE TO EVERYBODY, WE SPOKE TO THE WOMEN'S GROUPS, TO TRADE UNION GROUPS.

WE SPOKE TO THOSE THAT DIDN'T CONSIDER THEMSELVES PART OF VALUE GROUP.

WE WENT TO THE FARMERS, WENT TO THE EMPLOYERS, WE WENT TO THE UNEMPLOYED, AND I THINK THE PEOPLE SAW US AS AT LEAST HONEST BROKERS, THAT WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE A SETTLEMENT.

NOW TWO WEEKS BEFORE, I MEAN THE GOOD FRIDAY AGREEMENT TALK STARTED IN THE BEGINNING OF SEPTEMBER BY THIS TIME OF THE YEAR, AND IT WENT ON RIGHT UP UNTIL APRIL, AND IT WAS KIND OF NONSTOP EXCEPT FOR THE CHRISTMAS PERIOD.

AND SO I THINK OVER THAT PERIOD, PEOPLE WERE SAYING LIKE "THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY."

BUT A FEW WEEKS BEFORE THE FINALIZATION AT THE TALKS, OPINION POLLS WERE STILL SAYING 90% DIDN'T THINK WE'D SUCCEED.

>>SO IN THE END OF THE DAY, IT WAS PROBABLY A FEW BREAKS HERE AND THERE.

THE SECOND THING I THINK WAS IMPORTANT THAT WE PUT ALL THE ITEMS ON THE AGENDA.

NOW THAT WAS A RISK.

WELL IT IS MY BELIEF BECAUSE I DID A LOT OF NEGOTIATIONS WITH TRADE UNIONS, SUPPLIERS AND FARMERS IN MY EARLIER DAYS, WHEN I WAS MINISTER FOR EMPLOYMENT, OR MINISTER FOR FINANCE, AND WE HAD A SOCIAL PARTNERSHIP ARRANGEMENT.

SO I TENDED TO IN NEGOTIATIONS, PUT EVERYTHING ON THE LIST AND TONY BLAIR, AND I AGREED THAT WE WOULD POP THE REFORM OF POLICING, THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM, THE PRISONERS ISSUE, THE EQUALITY AGENDA.

WE PUT THE KITCHEN SINK AS WE SAY IN IRELAND INTO THIS.

SO AT LEAST PEOPLE FELT THAT THE ISSUES THAT WERE PARAMOUNT TO THEIR DIFFICULTIES WERE ALL ON THE AGENDA AND THAT WAS RISKY.

AND THERE WAS MANY TIMES I HAVE TO BE HONEST AND SAY THAT I THOUGHT WE WERE MAD, BUT AT LEAST IT GAVE EVERYBODY THAT SENSE THAT, THEY WERE ABLE TO SEE THAT THEIR ISSUE, THEIR FUNDAMENTAL DIFFICULTIES AND PROBLEMS WERE ON THE AGENDA.

>>THIS IS JUST SO IMPRESSIVE TO ME.

IT'S IMPACTFUL THAT YOU DESPITE HAVING THAT THE POLL THAT SAID "NO 90% OF THE PEOPLE ARE NOT WITH YOU" WHAT MADE YOU KEEP GOING?

>>WELL I THINK IT WAS GEORGE MITCHELL FOR STARTS, I MEAN GEORGE MITCHELL IS A GREAT MAN AND WAS A GREAT MAN FOR US IN THE NEGOTIATIONS, AND I THINK HE WAS CHAIRING THE TALKS AND GEORGE WAS ADAMANT STUMP.

WE WOULD GET TO A POSITION WHERE WE WOULD HAVE A DOCUMENT, A DOCUMENT PEOPLE WOULD HAVE TO SAY YES OR NO TO.

AND IN FAIRNESS TO HIM, HE KEPT ON EVEN WHEN TONY BLAIR AND I WERE DIFFERING SIGNIFICANTLY NEAR THE END, AS YOU'D EXPECT IN THESE ISSUES, AND HE WAS ENCOURAGING US AND ENTICING US TO TRY AND COMPROMISE.

AND I MEAN THERE WERE BIG ISSUES AT STAKE I MEAN FOR ME I HAVE TO CHANGE OUR CONSTITUTION, ARTICLES TWO AND THREE OF THE IRISH CONSTITUTION, REPUBLIC OF IRISH CONSTITUTION SINCE 1937 LAID CLAIM TO THE JURISDICTION OF NORTHERN IRELAND.

OUR CONSTITUTION AND IT WAS HELD DEEPLY BY THE PEOPLE IN THE SOUTH, THAT THE SIX COUNTIES OF NORTHERN IRELAND WERE OUR TERRITORY.

>>NOW IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN MEANINGLESS THAT IT WAS ONLY IN THE CONSTITUTION, AND WE NEVER DID MUCH ABOUT IT BUT THAT DIDN'T MATTER, IT WAS IN THE CONSTITUTION.

AND AS YOU KNOW, WHEN SOMETHING IS IN THE CONSTITUTION, PEOPLE FEEL VERY LINKED AND TIED TO IT.

SO THAT WAS... ON TONY'S SIDE, HE HAD TO SAY THAT HE WAS PREPARED TO RELEASE REPUBLICAN PRISONERS AND LOYALIST PRISONERS TOO, BUT MAINLY REPUBLICAN PRISONERS AND THAT THESE PEOPLE WOULD GET OUT AND LICENSE AND GO BACK INTO THEIR COMMUNITIES.

AND THAT WAS A BIG ISSUE BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY THEIR SECURITY IN THE UK WERE WORRIED ABOUT THAT.

WE HAD TO SAY THAT WE WOULD TOTALLY REFORM THE POLICE, THE POLICE SERVICE IN NORTHERN IRELAND OF COURSE, WERE NOT LIKED BY REPUBLICANS TO SAY IT MILDLY, BUT NEITHER NATIONALISTS, CONSTITUTIONALISTS NATIONALISTS WHO DISAGREED WITH VIOLENCE ALSO DIDN'T TRUST THE POLICE.

>>SO WE HAD TO REFORM THE POLICE ENTIRELY, AND TONY HAD TO SAY TO THE UNIONISTS WELL, THE POLICE FORCES YOU'VE HAD SINCE 1921 IS GOING TO BE EFFECTIVELY THE DISBANDED AND THAT A NEW ONE IS GOING TO PUMP THIS PLACE WITH DIFFERENT RULES.

SO THAT THE CHANGES WERE VERY FUNDAMENTAL AND I THINK...

I DON'T THINK ANYBODY WAS SAYING "WE GOT EVERYTHING ON OUR SIDE" AND "THE OTHERS HAVE WON OR WE LOST."

I THINK THEY WERE ABLE TO SAY "WELL THE COMPROMISES WERE FAIRLY EVEN."

NOW I'M SURE THERE'LL BE PLENTY OF PEOPLE WOULD DISPUTE THAT STATEMENT, BUT I THINK YOU GET THROUGH THE GAP WHEN THE GAP IS WIDE ENOUGH TO GET THROUGH IT.

SO I THINK WE PROBABLY, PROBABLY JUDGED THAT ABOUT RIGHT.

I WOULDN'T OVER SELL THAT, BUT I THINK WE PROBABLY GOT IT ABOUT RIGHT.

>>BUT YOU MENTIONED GEORGE MITCHELL SPECIFICALLY, AND YOU STARTED BY ALSO MENTIONING BILL CLINTON.

BUT I WANT TO ASK YOU WHY WAS UNITED STATES ROLE SO INSTRUMENTAL IN HAVING THE GOOD FRIDAY AGREEMENT HAPPEN?

>>WELL FROM 1969 OR '68, WHEN, WHEN THE CURRENT ROUND OF DIFFICULTIES HAPPENED IN NORTHERN IRELAND, AND IT'S ALWAYS A DANGEROUS THING WHEN AN IRISH PERSON, WHAT A YEAR TO TAKE WHAT WE'LL TAKE '68, BECAUSE YOU COULD END UP IN 1107 OR 1189 VERY QUICKLY, AND PARTICULARLY IF THE IRISH ARE HAVING A RATTLE ABOUT SOMETHING.

BUT LET'S TAKE AT '68, '69, WHERE THAT HALF CENTURY OF TROUBLE STARTED, IS WAS I THINK AT A POSITION WHERE THERE WERE SO MUCH DIFFERENCES, THERE WAS SO MUCH ARGUMENTS, THERE WAS SO MUCH VIOLENCE, AND ONE THING LED TO ANOTHER, THAT WE WERE NEVER GOING TO RESOLVE THIS ON OUR OWN NUMBER ONE.

EUROPEAN UNION HELPED, THEY FINANCIALLY HELPED, AND THERE WERE...

THEY DID A LOT TO HELP, BUT THAT WAS NUMBER TWO.

BUT IRISH, AMERICA, THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE FUNDING UNIONISTS AND LOYALISTS TRADITION HAVE GONE TO TO UNITED STATES AND TO CANADA TOO.

>>AND A LOT OF NATIONALISTS AND REPUBLICANS HAVE GONE THERE TOO.

SO I THINK UNITED STATES WERE IDEALLY PLACED TO HELP.

AND YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER, DAVID AND KATIE BACK IN 1969, OUR FOREIGN MINISTER WENT TO THE UN AND WE PLEADED WITH THEM FOR HELP AND WE DIDN'T GET ANY.

AND MAINLY BECAUSE UNITED KINGDOM WOULDN'T AGREE AND FOR MANY YEARS... AND NOT TO PERSONALIZE IT, BUT FOR MANY DECADES, THE PRESIDENTS OF THE UNITED STATES ON ALL SIDES BUT PARTICULARLY REPUBLICAN SIDES, THEY TENDED TO LISTEN TO THE BRITISH.

AND WE'RE A SMALL COUNTRY AND WE WEREN'T ABLE TO GET OUR VOICE HEARD.

WE DID TO A CERTAIN EXTENT, AND HAD TED KENNEDY THANK GOD AND, AND OTHERS.

WELL THE BRITS WERE BIGGER AND THEY WERE BETTER AT SELLING THE MESSAGE AND BILL CLINTON TO HIS CREDIT LISTENED AND HE HELPED.

>>AND HE DIDN'T TAKE THE BRITISH LINE AND ALL THE ISSUES WHERE OUR AMBASSADOR WHO WAS A KENNEDY AS WELL, THAT SHE WENT DIRECTLY TO HIM AND THEY GAVE THE VISAS THAT WERE CRUCIAL FOR THE CRUCIAL TIMES.

SO THAT'S THE AMERICAN INVOLVEMENT AND THE PENETRATION THAT THEY PUT INTO IT AND LISTENED TO US HELPED AMAZINGLY.

AND ON THE LAST NIGHTS OF THE TALKS, WE HAD ACCESS TO BILL CLINTON ALL NIGHT AND GOD WHEN YOU THINK OF IT, DID WE GET THE PRESIDENT OF THE FREE WORLD STAYING UP ALL NIGHT TO LISTEN TO THE IRISH BICKERING AND TAKE, MAKING PHONE CALLS AT TWO AND THREE IN THE MORNING AMERICAN TIME.

IT HAD A BIG INFLUENCE AND I THINK EVERYBODY IN IRELAND WAS VERY GRATEFUL FOR THAT.

AND SHOULD I SAY, JUST TO SEND SOME BALANCE AFTERWARDS, GEORGE BUSH CONTINUED ON AND I HAD ACCESS TO HIM WHEN I NEEDED HIM.

AT THAT TIME WE DIDN'T NEED IT AS MUCH, BUT WE DID GET A HUGE ASSISTANCE FROM AMERICAN, FROM THE ADMINISTRATION, THE STATE DEPARTMENT.

EVENTUALLY IT TOOK BILL CLINTON BECAUSE TRADITIONALLY THE STATE DEPARTMENT LISTENED TO THE BRITS MORE THAN US.

AND THAT'S NOT ME BEING ANGRY OR BITTER IT'S JUST A FACT OF LIFE.

>>REALITY.

SO YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE US ROLE IN THIS PARTICULAR PROCESS, BUT YOU ALSO MENTIONED IRISH AND IRISH AMERICANS, AND THEIR TIES TO IRELAND.

HOW HAS THAT MADE THE US, IRELAND RELATIONSHIP SPECIAL OVER TIME?

>>OH LISTEN IT'S CRUCIAL.

I MEAN THE REASON WE HAVE ST PATRICK'S DAY WHICH IS A WORLD DAY NOW, BUT IT WAS THE IRISH IN AMERICA AND IN FAIRNESS TO THE AMERICANS THAT HAVE HELPED TO KEEP THAT ALIVE AND TO MAKE IT THE BIGGEST DAY IN THE YEAR OF ANY FOREIGN GROUP IN THE UNITED STATES, BUT THAT HAS HELPED INVESTMENTS.

IRISH-AMERICANS WE HAVE PRACTICALLY ALL OF THE BIG ICT COMPANIES IN THE BROADEST SENSE OF INFORMATION, COMMUNICATION TECHNOLOGIES WITH THE BIG PHARMA COMPANIES.

DOWN THROUGH THE YEARS DELL, AND GOOGLE, AND CISCO, AND AMAZON, AND INTEL, AND EVERY ONE OF THEM ARE HERE, THEY'RE HERE IN HUGE NUMBERS, THEY EMPLOY MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF PEOPLE, SO ARE ALL THE PHARMACEUTICALS.

I THINK WE HAVE 18 AT THE TOP 20 PHARMACEUTICALS IN IRELAND.

>>AND THAT IS HUGELY DOWN TO THE CONNECTION, THE DNA CONNECTION THAT'S GONE BACK GENERATIONS AND THE FAMINE BETWEEN THE IRISH AND AMERICANS.

AND THANKFULLY IT'S AS STRONG TODAY.

I MEAN, YOU SAW WHEN THE BRITISH DECIDED THAT THEY CONTROL WITHDRAWAL AGREEMENT, THE FOLLOWING MORNING NANCY PELOSI WAS DOWN THE TUBES INTO THEIR FACE.

AND I MEAN THAT IS JUST...

SO RICHIE NEAL HEADED AWAY IT MEANS HE RESIGNED BY LUNCHTIME DOWN THERE.

SO WHERE WOULD WE BE WITHOUT THAT CONNECTION?

AND THAT'S NOT TO TALK ABOUT THE TOURISTS, AND ALL OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT HELPED TO MAKE IRELAND TAKE OFF, AMERICAN ANCESTRY, AMERICAN SUPPORT.

AND SOMETIMES PEOPLE USED TO THINK "OH THIS IS ALL PART OF HISTORY" IT'S NOT, IT'S PART OF EVERYDAY LIFE BETWEEN IRISH AND AMERICAN.

THANK GOD FOR IT.

I THINK WE'D BE IN A BAD WAY IF WE HADN'T GOT IT.

>>PRIME MINISTER AMERICANS AND GLOBALLY, I'M SURE THAT THERE'S AN INTEREST IN KNOWING IF YOU HAVE ANY FUTURE PLANS IN POLITICS?

>>WELL YOU NEVER SAY NEVER, WE SHOULD NEVER SAY YES EITHER I THINK.

I'M VERY INVOLVED STILL IN NORTHERN IRELAND, I'M INVOLVED WITH QUEENS UNIVERSITY IN THE NORTH, I'M INVOLVED IN A NUMBER OF THINK TANK GROUPS, I STILL DEAL WITH THE POLITICAL PARTIES ON ALL SIDES IN NORTHERN IRELAND.

I GIVE A LOT OF MY TIME NOW AND TO THAT, AND I'M ALSO INVOLVED IN CONFLICT RESOLUTION I SUPPOSE.

I HAVEN'T BEEN INVOLVED IN... NOT I'VE BEEN INVOLVED IN, I'VE JUST FINISHED UP CHAIRING THE... OF ALL PLACES IN PAPUA NEW GUINEA, THE CONSTITUTIONAL REFERENDUM THERE.

I'VE BEEN INVOLVED IN UKRAINE AND TO A LESSER EXTENT IN THE ARAB WORLD, AND I'VE BEEN INVOLVED IN TURKEY AS WELL.

SO I'VE BEEN INVOLVED IN A LOT OF CONFLICT RESOLUTION ISSUES AND CONTINUE TO DO THAT, BUT I'M GETTING OLDER, BUT STILL TRYING TO STAY HEALTHY.

BUT YOU KEEP YOUR HAND IN AND I VERY MUCH KEEP MY HAND IN EUROPEAN POLITICS AS WELL.

>>AND SO YOUR CONSULTING IN PEACE AGREEMENTS IF WE EVER NEED YOU FOR ANYTHING?

>>WELL SOMETIMES SUCCESSFULLY.

AND I SAY SOME OF THE ONES I'M INVOLVED IN HOPELESSLY UNSUCCESSFUL, BUT YOU KEEP TRYING.

AS I THINK WE LEARNED IN IRELAND, THE LORD LOVES A TRIER AND WE KEEP TRYING.

>>THANK YOU.

>>YOU DID MENTION THE EU, SO I WAS ASKING ABOUT BREXIT IN THE CONTEXT OF THE UK, BUT HOW DOES THE EU'S FUTURE LOOK RIGHT NOW?

YOU WERE OBVIOUSLY VERY ACTIVE ON THE COUNCIL PRESIDENCY, YOU HEADED...

WHICH ACTUALLY DRAFTED A CONSTITUTION FOR THE EU.

WHERE'S THE EU GOING RIGHT NOW?

>>WELL I THINK LIKE EVERYTHING IN THE WORLD, IT'S DIFFICULT I THINK THE EUROPEAN UNION WILL CONTINUE TO BE STRONG, I THINK THEY'LL CONTINUE TO BE A VERY POWERFUL BLOCK OF 400 MILLION PEOPLE, AND UK LEAVING BUT DEFINITELY IS A LOSS AS AN IRISH REPUBLIC AND THEY'VE BEEN MAYBE SURPRISED ME TO SAY THAT IT IS A LOSS.

I'D FAR PREFERRED TO BE INTO EUROPEAN UNION AND TO BE WORKING WITH US.

SO I THINK EUROPEAN UNION NOW HAS CHALLENGES, IT'S THE FIRST COUNTRY TO LEAVE.

IT'S A LARGE COUNTRY 70 MILLION PEOPLE, AND THAT CHANGES THE RELATIONSHIP.

I THINK IT'S THE EUROPEAN UNION WILL HAVE TO HANDLE THAT CAREFULLY OVER THE PERIOD AHEAD.

I THINK IT'S WELL AS THAT I MEAN MY VIEW AS I GET OLDER, I THINK THE WORLD IS GOING TO BE IN BLOCKS NOW.

I THINK... YOU HAVE THE EUROPEAN UNION, YOU YOU'VE AMERICA, LATIN AMERICA, YOU HAVE THE ASIAN PACIFIC COUNTRIES.

>>I MEAN I THINK THERE'S FOUR OR FIVE BLOCKS, IT'S A BIT LIKE A FOOTBALL LEAGUE.

AND I THINK THAT YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO BE PART OF ONE OF THEM, AND HOPEFULLY WE WON'T CONTINUE TO HAVE ALL OF THE DISAGREEMENTS.

I MEAN I AM A MULTILATERALIST, I BELIEVE IN INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATIONS, I BELIEVE INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATIONS ARE GOOD FOR EVERYBODY, BUT PARTICULARLY FOR SMALL COUNTRIES.

I'M A BIG SUPPORTER OF THE UNITED NATIONS, AND I'M BIG SUPPORTER OF THE WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION, AND THE ILO, AND I THINK THESE ARE GOOD FOR THE WORLD.

I DON'T LIKE TO SEE THE WORLD BEING A DISPARATE GROUP, AND PEOPLE ARGUING AND UNDERMINING, IT'S NOT GOOD FOR ANYBODY.

AND I HOPE 2021, WE CAN MOVE BACK INTO A MORE MULTI-LATERAL WORLD BECAUSE IT DOESN'T SERVE ANY OF US BREAKING UP ORGANIZATIONS THAT IN MY VIEW, IT'S MY VIEW, HAVE SERVED THE WORLD WELL FOR DECADES.

>>THANK YOU.

>>MR.

PRIME MINISTER THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US TODAY.

>>THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>>AND THANK YOU FOR JOINING US WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK ON ANOTHER EPISODE OF GLOBAL PERSPECTIVES.