♪ MUSIC ♪ >>GOOD MORNING AND WELCOME TO GLOBAL PERSPECTIVES.

I'M DAVID DUMKE.

>>AND I'M KATIE CORONADO.

WELCOME.

>>TODAY WE ARE JOINED BY FORMER CONGRESSMAN TOM PETRI WHO REPRESENTED WISCONSIN IN THE US HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

WE'RE ALSO JOINED BY CONGRESSWOMAN LORETTA SANCHEZ WHO REPRESENTED CALIFORNIA.

WELCOME TO THE SHOW.

>>WELL, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>>THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

>>WE'RE EXCITED TO BE HERE.

>>CONGRESSWOMAN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE AGAIN.

WE WANTED TO ASK YOU YOUR TRAJECTORY.

HOW DID YOU GET STARTED?

WHAT INSPIRED YOU TO GET INTO POLITICS?

>>WELL, I WAS AN INVESTMENT BANKER.

I WAS PRETTY HAPPY.

I MOVED BACK TO MY HOMETOWN IN ANAHEIM, CALIFORNIA, WHERE DISNEYLAND IS.

AND I DID SOME WORK, SOME PRO BONO WORK IN THE SCHOOLS.

I WAS CHANGING THINGS JUST DRASTICALLY AND WANTED TO CONTINUE AND DO IT AT MORE SCHOOLS.

AND THE SCHOOL BOARD DIDN'T WANT TO HEAR ABOUT IT.

AND SO I WENT TO TALK TO MY MEMBER OF CONGRESS AND HE REFUSED TO MEET WITH ME.

SO I DECIDED TO RUN FOR CONGRESS.

I WENT HOME, I SAID TO MY FAMILY I'M RUNNING FOR CONGRESS.

AND WE DID.

I MEAN, MY WHOLE FAMILY, IT'S A BIG FAMILY.

WE WERE KNOWN IN ANAHEIM.

WE WORKED REALLY HARD.

I WALKED TO 65,000 HOUSES, KNOCKING ON DOORS, TALKING ABOUT CHANGING THE WORLD.

AND FIRST, I WON THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY PRIMARY, WHICH I WASN'T KNOWN IN POLITICS OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY WAS ANGRY ABOUT THAT.

AND THEN I BEAT AN 18 YEAR INCUMBENT TO THE CONGRESS, AND GOT TO CONGRESS.

ON MY 36TH BIRTHDAY.

I WAS SWORN INTO THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

>>EXCELLENT.

>>CONGRESSMAN YOU REPRESENTED WISCONSIN FOR 36 YEARS, I BELIEVE.

WHY DID YOU GET IN IT?

>>WELL, BASICALLY, I WAS ALWAYS INTERESTED IN POLITICS FROM THE TIME I WAS SMALL, AND I HAD AN OPPORTUNITY AND RAN AND WAS ELECTED.

THE REASON I WAS INTERESTED IS THAT GROWING UP, MY GRANDPARENTS LIVED ACROSS THE STREET.

THEY WERE IMMIGRANTS FROM NORWAY TO THE UNITED STATES, CAME OVER WHEN THEY WERE 16, 17 YEARS OLD.

AND MY GRANDFATHER BECAME A CARPENTER AT THE ROUNDHOUSE OF THE SIOUX LION RAILROAD NORTH OF MY HOMETOWN.

AND HE WAS ALWAYS VERY INTERESTED IN WHAT WAS GOING ON IN THE UNITED STATES, BUT NEVER WENT TO SCHOOL IN THE UNITED STATES.

COULDN'T WRITE ENGLISH VERY WELL, HE COULD SPEAK IT VERY WELL, BUT HE WOULD ALWAYS SAY TO HIS LITTLE GRANDCHILDREN SITTING THERE, "THE PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES TAKE AN AWFUL LOT FOR GRANTED.

IT'S SUCH A WONDERFUL COUNTRY.

YOU HAVE MORE OPPORTUNITIES THAN EVEN IN A COUNTRY LIKE NORWAY."

AND IF YOU EVER HAVE A CHANCE, YOU SHOULD PARTICIPATE AND TRY TO KEEP THIS GOING FOR OTHER PEOPLE.

AND SO THAT ALWAYS GOT ME VERY INTERESTED.

BUT HE HAD SEVEN CHILDREN AND THREE OR FOUR OF THEM ENDED UP SERVING IN ELECTED OFFICES, ON LOCAL SCHOOL BOARDS OR CITY COUNCILS, THINGS LIKE THAT.

AND SO WHEN I HAD THE OPPORTUNITY, I RAN FOR THE STATE SENATE AND WAS ELECTED.

AND THEN WHEN MY PREDECESSOR DIED UNEXPECTEDLY, THERE WAS A SPECIAL ELECTION FOR CONGRESS.

AND I ENDED UP THERE.

>>VERY IMPRESSIVE.

AND BOTH OF YOU HAVE SOMETHING IN COMMON, YOU BOTH HAVE IMMIGRATION STORIES AS YOUR BACKGROUNDS IN YOUR FAMILIES.

SO I WANTED TO ADDRESS YOU CONGRESSWOMAN TELL ME WHAT IT WAS LIKE.

I KNOW IN CALIFORNIA, THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WITH HISPANIC BACKGROUNDS, BUT WERE THERE A LOT OF REPRESENTATIVES OF THE HISPANIC BACKGROUND IN POLITICS AT THAT TIME AND A WOMAN, OF COURSE.

>>WELL, ABSOLUTELY NOT.

IN FACT, I COME FROM THE MOST REPUBLICAN AND CONSERVATIVE AREA OF CALIFORNIA, ORANGE COUNTY.

AND WE SENT SIX PEOPLE TO THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

BEFORE ME IT WAS JUST SIX ANGLO REPUBLICAN MALES.

AND THEN WITH ME, WELL, I WAS THE ODD ONE OUT.

SO PEOPLE COULDN'T BELIEVE I GOT ELECTED IN THAT AREA.

BUT THERE WERE A LOT OF LATINOS, HISPANICS, BUT WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY POSITIONS OF POWER.

THERE WERE NO REAL... PEOPLE ALWAYS SAID, "WELL, WHAT ROLE MODELS DID YOU HAVE?"

WELL, THE ONLY ROLE MODELS I HAD REALLY AT THE TIME WERE MY MOM AND MY DAD AND MY GRANDMA.

I MEAN, THERE REALLY WEREN'T WOMEN, THERE WEREN'T WOMEN IN POSITIONS, THERE WEREN'T HISPANICS IN POSITIONS.

WE ONLY HAVE A 1.6% AFRICAN AMERICAN POPULATION IN THAT COUNTY OF 3.2 MILLION PEOPLE.

SO I DIDN'T REALLY SEE ANY OF THAT IN THE POWER BASE.

AND ONE OF THE REASONS THAT ONCE I STARTED RUNNING AND I WON 10 ELECTIONS, 20 YEARS IN THE CONGRESS WAS I HELPED TO MAKE AN OFFICE WHERE YOUNG PEOPLE WHO WERE MORE DIVERSE, YOUNG LADIES COULD COME AND LEARN ABOUT THE CONGRESS.

BEFORE THAT THOSE DOORS WERE KIND OF SHUT TO US.

>>AND CONGRESSMAN, CAN YOU TELL US HOW YOU HAVE SEEN THINGS CHANGE BETWEEN THE TIME THAT YOU STARTED AND TODAY IN POLITICS?

>>WELL, IT'S BEEN A BIG CHANGE IN A LOT OF DIFFERENT WAYS AND PEOPLE ARE STILL STRUGGLING WITH HOW TO DEAL WITH THE, THERE A LOT OF THINGS THAT MAY BE CHANGED FOR THE BETTER, BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS MAY HAVE CHANGED FOR THE WORSE OR MADE THINGS MORE DIFFICULT.

I THINK I MAY HAVE BEEN IN THE FIRST CONGRESS, IF NOT, I WAS VERY , WHERE THERE WAS ELECTRONIC VOTING, AND JUST A FEW YEARS BEFORE THAT CONGRESS STARTED BEING TELEVISED.

BEFORE THAT PEOPLE WOULD ACTUALLY STAND UP AND DEBATE ON THE FLOOR OF THE HOUSE.

AND THEY WOULD SOMETIMES CHANGE THEIR VIEW.

SUDDENLY IT'S ALL ON TV IN FRONT OF YOUR CONSTITUENTS.

AND INSTEAD OF ACTUALLY TALKING AND SAYING WHAT YOU THINK YOU ARE GIVING SPEECHES AND SORT OF HALF OF IT WAS BEING DONE FOR PUBLIC CONCEPTION RATHER THAN FOR ACTUALLY TRYING TO LEGISLATE, SO TO SPEAK.

AND BEFORE IT WAS TELEVISED, PEOPLE COULD SAY WHAT THEY WANTED.

IT WAS TAKEN DOWN BY THE STENOGRAPHERS, BUT THEN THEY WOULD GIVE YOU A COPY AS A MEMBER OF THE HOUSE AND YOU COULD EDIT IT AND CHANGE IT TO ANY WAY YOU WANTED.

AND SO YOU WEREN'T REALLY BOUND BY- >>WHAT YOU SAID.

>>BY WHAT YOU SAID SO FAR AS YOUR CONSTITUENTS WERE CONCERNED.

AND THAT ENABLED YOU TO ENGAGE IN A LOT MORE ON UNVARNISHED DISCUSSION.

>>HONEST DEBATE.

>>SO NOW, AND THEN OF COURSE, ELECTRONIC VOTING, YOU CAN IMAGINE 435, THE SENATE STILL USES VOICE AND THEN ROLL CALL VOTING.

SO THEY HAVE TO CALL THE NAMES OF 100 SENATORS.

IF YOU HAVE TO CALL 435, IT TAKES HOURS.

SO THERE WERE VERY FEW ROLL CALL VOTES IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES UNTIL THEY WENT TO ELECTRONIC VOTING.

THEN SUDDENLY THEY LOST CONTROL OF IT.

>>IT USED TO BE THAT PARTIES WOULD SORT OF AGREE ON A FEW ISSUES WHERE THEY COULD DEMONSTRATE THEIR DIFFERENCES AND THEIR SUPPORT FOR DIFFERENT CONSTITUENCIES.

AND MOST OTHER THINGS WERE GRADUALLY WORKED OUT BY CONSENSUS OR BY VOICE VOTES.

IT WAS VERY HARD TO GET A ROLL CALL OF VOTE IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

NOW IT'S ALL CHANGED.

AND I DON'T THINK NECESSARILY FOR THE BETTER.

A LOT OF INSTITUTIONS ARE WORRYING ABOUT HOW TO INTERACT.

WE'RE A PUBLIC HOUSE.

REPRESENTATIVES REALLY WANT THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, THE SENATE, THE CAPITAL TO BE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC.

NOW THERE ARE WALLS AROUND IT BECAUSE OF WHAT HAPPENED ON JANUARY 6TH.

>>WELL, AND 9/11.

>>AND 9/11.

>>YOU STARTED THE REAL LOCKDOWN ON THE CONGRESS, BUT YOU COULD STILL WALK INTO YOUR CONGRESS MEMBER'S OFFICE UNANNOUNCED AND TALK TO SOMEBODY.

BUT AFTER JANUARY 6TH, VERY RESTRICTED TO GET IN A STAFFER HAS TO COME DOWN AND GET YOU.

SO THE ISOLATION OF THAT I THINK HAS CONTRIBUTED STILL TO WHAT WE SEE TODAY, WHICH IS THIS REAL DIVIDE BETWEEN MEMBERS.

>>AND THEY'RE NOT EVEN VOTING IN PERSON RIGHT NOW IN THE HOUSE.

THEY'RE ABLE TO DO IT FROM THEIR DISTRICTS.

AND THAT OVER TIME, THERE WILL BE A LOT OF PROBLEMS WITH THAT.

AND IT ALSO CUTS DOWN ON THE OPPORTUNITY FOR COMMUNICATION.

AND THE PLACE OF IT, IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE A DELIBERATIVE BODY.

AND THAT ELIMINATES THAT.

>>AND ONE OF THE BEST TIMES TO GO AND TALK TO SOMEONE LIKE TOM WAS WHEN WE ALL COME IN, ALL 435 OF US INTO THE HOUSE, AND WE'RE ALL IN THE SAME CHAMBER AND WE'RE TAKING DIFFERENT VOTES AND I'M LOOKING, I'M LIKE, "WHERE'S TOM, WHERE'S TOM?

I NEED TO TALK TO HIM ABOUT SOMETHING."

AND YOU'RE MAKING DEALS ON THE HOUSE FLOOR.

YOU'RE SAYING CAN WE HAVE DINNER TOMORROW NIGHT BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT THIS EDUCATION BILL I HAVE.

NOW, ALL OF THAT'S GONE RIGHT NOW FOR OUR CONGRESS, WHICH MAKES IT EVEN MORE STIFLED THAN MORE DIFFICULT TO GET BEYOND THE 6TH OF JANUARY, WHICH WAS A VERY DEBILITATING ACT FOR BOTH SIDES, FOR EVERYBODY WHO WAS IN THAT CAPITAL.

>>WELL, LET ME ASK YOU.

YOU BOTH ARE INVOLVED IN THE ASSOCIATION OF FORMER MEMBERS OF CONGRESS AND A LOT OF YOUR WORK TALKS ABOUT CIVILITY IN POLITICS AND ON A BIPARTISAN BASIS, WHICH IS GOOD IN THEORY.

BUT IN THIS CLIMATE, IS IT STILL POSSIBLE TO BE CIVIL AND PRODUCTIVE?

>>I THINK IT IS.

AND I THINK THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS MOST OF THE MEMBERS ARE CIVIL AND ARE PRODUCTIVE.

AND A NUMBER OF THE COMMITTEES ARE VERY BIPARTISAN, SERVED ON THE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE.

IT STILL HAS A JOINT...

THERE IS NOT A REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRATIC STAFF.

THEY DON'T FEEL THAT IT SHOULD BE A REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRATIC APPROACH TO THE MILITARY ISSUES.

AND SO THEY HAVE A JOINT STAFF.

>>HE'S TALKING ABOUT THE STAFF THAT STAFF THE COMMITTEE.

THE COMMITTEE STAFF.

>>AND I WAS ON THE TRANSPORTATION COMMITTEE AND THERE, WE WORKED VERY CLOSELY ACROSS PARTY LINES BECAUSE WE KNEW WE COULD BE MORE EFFECTIVE IN GETTING LEGISLATION ACTUALLY THROUGH, IF WE COULD AGREE ON A BIPARTISAN BASIS ON A BILL.

A BILL HAS TO NOT ONLY PASS ONE HOUSE, IT HAS TO PASS THE OTHER HOUSE AND BE SIGNED BY THE PRESIDENT.

AND IF YOU ARE TRYING TO DO IT ON A PARTISAN BASIS AND PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO STOP IT'S A LOT EASIER TO STOP LEGISLATION THAN TO PASS IT.

AND THERE'S A REASON FOR THAT.

IT'S A BIG DIVERSE COUNTRY WITH A LOT OF DIFFERENT INTERESTS.

AND SO YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE FEEL THEY HAVE A CHANCE TO PARTICIPATE AND HAVE THE INPUT.

AND IT TAKES TIME.

AND SOMETIMES THERE ARE LEGITIMATE REASONS THAT- >>FOR OPPOSING THINGS.

>>PEOPLE ARE OBJECTING AND WE LEARN THIS OFTEN AT HEARINGS.

PEOPLE MISUNDERSTAND, AT HEARING GROUPS WILL COME IN AND TESTIFY FOR, OR AGAINST LEGISLATION AND OFTEN WILL PUT OUT REASONS FOR IT.

AND THE OTHER SIDE IS SITTING THERE ON AT THE HEARING LISTENING SAYING, "WAS THAT REALLY THE REASON?"

AND MEMBERS OF CONGRESS ARE USUALLY ON A COMMITTEE, VERY HAPPY IF GROUPS THAT ARE OPPOSING LEGISLATION COME IN AND THEN WORK OUT THEIR DIFFERENCES AND SAY, DO YOU THINK YOU CAN PASS SOMETHING THAT WE'VE COMPROMISED ON?

AND THAT'S WHERE LOBBYISTS AND DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONS THAT HAVE AN INTEREST IN LEGISLATION COME IN.

>>IT CAN BE VERY HELPFUL ACTUALLY.

>>IT'S A BIG, COMPLICATED PROCESS.

AND IT'S NOT JUST ALL DONE TOP DOWN.

PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO HAVE TO LIVE UNDER LEGISLATION OR DIFFERENT PROGRAMS REALLY SHOULD HAVE SOME... AND THEY OFTEN WILL HAVE INSIGHTS THAT YOU WOULDN'T ACTUALLY THINK OF IF YOU'RE JUST TRYING TO DEAL WITH A PROBLEM WITHOUT KNOWING HOW IT WILL AFFECT PEOPLE IN THEIR DAILY LIFE.

>>YET TODAY, WE HAD A YOUNG LADY WHO DISSED LOBBYISTS AND JUST HOLD ON THERE, THERE'S A PURPOSE FOR LOBBYISTS.

THEY COME IN AND BRING US INFORMATION.

SHAME ON THE MEMBER WHO ONLY LISTENS TO ONE SIDE.

WHENEVER I HAD THE LOBBYISTS COME IN, IT'S A WAY TO GET INFORMATION ON A PARTICULAR BILL OR WHATEVER IT IS THEY WANT.

YOU LISTEN, YOU CAN ASK THEM THE QUESTIONS AND EVERYTHING.

THEN I WOULD ALWAYS ASK THEM, WHAT WOULD THE PEOPLE AGAINST THIS SAY?

>>AND THEN THEY WOULD TELL ME.

THEN I WOULD PICK UP THE PHONE AND I WOULD CALL THE OPPOSITE SIDE.

AND I'D SAY, "GET IN HERE.

I WANT TO HEAR YOUR SIDE OF THE STORY."

AND THEN THEY WOULD TELL ME, AND THEN I'D SAY, "WHAT WOULD THE OTHER SIDE SAY."

IT'S A WAY TO GET INFORMATION.

IT'S NOT A BAD THING.

IT'S ONLY BAD IF ALL YOU DO IS YOU HAVE ONE LOBBYIST FRIEND, AND THAT'S THE ONLY PERSON YOU LISTEN TO.

AND YOU DO WHATEVER IT IS THAT THEY TELL YOU TO DO.

OTHERWISE, LOBBYISTS GIVE US GOOD INFORMATION.

I MEAN, THEY'VE LOOKED AT THE BILL.

THEY'VE THOUGHT IF THEY'RE AN ASSOCIATION, FOR EXAMPLE, HOW WILL THIS AFFECT OUR MEMBERS?

IS THIS GOOD?

IS THIS BAD FOR THEM?

SO I THINK THE MORE INFORMATION WE HAVE, THE BETTER DECISION MAKING WE CAN MAKE.

>>YEAH.

AND I'D ALWAYS SAY, DO YOU BELIEVE IN FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION, IT'S IN THE CONSTITUTION?

DO YOU BELIEVE IN THE ABILITY, THE FREEDOM TO PETITION THE CONGRESS?

YES.

WELL, WHAT DO YOU THINK A LOBBYIST IS?

IT'S A GROUP OF PEOPLE GETTING TOGETHER AND PUTTING SOME MONEY TO GET IN THE POT AND HIRING SOMEONE TO GO AND PETITION CONGRESS ON THEIR BEHALF.

BECAUSE YOU HAVE A JOB TO DO YOU.

AND THEN ANOTHER QUERY I WOULD ASK, DOES EVERY ONE OF YOU IN THIS CLASSROOM HAS LOBBYISTS WORKING ON YOUR BEHALF.

IF YOU BELONG TO A CHURCH, IF YOU GO TO A SCHOOL, IF YOU ARE INVOLVED IN SPORTS, YOU NAME IT.

IF YOU'RE WORKING AT A JOB, THERE ARE PEOPLE, WHETHER YOU ARE DIRECTLY ENGAGED IN THE PROCESS OR NOT, YOU ARE BELONGING TO AN ASSOCIATION OR ELECTING PEOPLE WHO ARE THEN AMONG THEIR ACTIVITIES, DEVELOPING POSITIONS AND EMPLOYING LOBBYISTS TO REPRESENT THOSE POSITIONS.

BECAUSE IT'S IN THE INTEREST OF THE GROUP.

AND ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES ARE BENEFITED BY GOOD LOBBYING BECAUSE THEY HELP CLARIFY ISSUES AND EXPLAIN HOW IT WILL AFFECT DIFFERENT ELEMENTS OF YOUR CONSTITUENCY.

AND SO WE END UP WITH A STRONGER...

IT'S FRUSTRATING.

WE END UP WITH A STRONGER SYSTEM AND BETTER LEGISLATION IF YOU ALLOW AN OPEN SYSTEM, WHICH LOBBYING IS PART OF.

>>WELL, THAT'S VERY INTERESTING AND VERY CLEAR PERSPECTIVE.

THANK YOU.

ANOTHER QUESTION IS WHEN YOU GET INTO THIS JOB OF A SERVANT LEADER, A LOT OF THIS HAS TO DO WITH HEART AND PUSHING POLICIES OR TRYING TO HELP YOUR CONSTITUENTS LIKE YOU SAID, BUT A LOT OF THIS COMES FROM HERE.

SO CAN YOU TELL ME, FOR EXAMPLE, SOMETHING THAT STANDS OUT IN YOUR TIME REPRESENTING YOUR CONSTITUENTS, SOMETHING THAT STANDS OUT THAT MADE YOU JUST FEEL LIKE YOU WERE ACHIEVING SOMETHING?

>>OH, WELL WE ALL HAVE LOTS OF STORIES.

AND MAYBE ONE OF MY FAVORITE ONES.

WHEN I WAS IN THE STATE, WHEN I WAS RUNNING FOR THE STATE SENATE A LONG TIME AGO, I WAS RINGING DOORBELLS AND SOME GUY CAME TO THE DOOR AND HE WAS VERY MAD.

HE HAD A BOX OF CEREAL.

THERE WAS A LABEL SAYING THAT YOU COULD USE THIS BOX OF CEREAL TO GET A DISCOUNT ON A COKE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, EXCEPT IN THE STATES OF WISCONSIN AND OREGON.

>>LUCKY YOU.

>>AND SO I TOOK IT FROM HIM AND I SAID, "WELL, IF I'M ELECTED, I WILL DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT."

AND BELIEVE IT OR NOT, I DID BRING IT UP.

AND WE TALKED ABOUT IT AND IT WAS CALLED CROSS LICENSING.

AND THERE WERE REASONS FOR CROSS LICENSING THAT COULD BE ABUSED, BUT THOSE HAD DISAPPEARED.

>>AND WE DID GET LEGISLATION THROUGH AND IT WAS THE DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR PAT LUCEY SIGNED IT AND ORGANIZED A THING AND ASKED ME IF I COULD INVITE THESE PEOPLE.

AND WE CALLED UP THIS GUY AND HE'D FORGOTTEN THAT HE'D ACTUALLY... AND THEN AFTER HE CALMED DOWN AND WE EXPLAINED TO HIM, THAT WE WANTED HIM TO COME WITH HIS FAMILY OVER, TO MEET THE GOVERNOR AND HAVE A BILL SIGNING HE WAS VERY HAPPY TO DO IT.

>>THAT'S FUNNY.

>>BUT THIS IS THE KIND OF THING THAT YOU GET MAD ABOUT SOMETHING, WHATEVER YOUR CONSTITUENT PROBLEM IS.

AND YOU GOT MAD AND RAN AGAINST HIM AND DEFEATED HIM.

BUT A LOT OF PEOPLE MIGHT HAVE JUST SAID, "WELL, LET'S..." AND PUT IT OUT OF THEIR MIND AND NEVER WORRIED ABOUT IT AGAIN.

>>HOW ABOUT YOU?

>>WELL WHAT THAT COMES TO MIND IS A VERY INTERESTING STORY.

I USED TO DO THESE THINGS, NOT EVERYBODY CAN TAKE OFF NINE TO FIVE TO COME TO AN OFFICE TO SOLVE A PROBLEM THEY MIGHT HAVE.

SO ON SATURDAY MORNINGS, ONCE A MONTH, I WOULD SEND OUT AHEAD OF TIME, NOTICE AROUND TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT I WOULD BE AT THE SUPERMARKET, THE LOCAL SUPERMARKET, IN FRONT OF THE SUPERMARKET FOR LIKE FROM NINE TO NOON AND THAT PEOPLE COULD COME AND STAND IN LINE AND THEY WOULD GET FIVE MINUTES WITH ME TO AND IF THEY HAD PROBLEMS, THEY HAD A PROBLEM WITH THE VETERAN'S BENEFIT OR SOCIAL SECURITY OR THE IRS OR WHATEVER.

I WOULD ACTUALLY HAVE MY STAFF THERE.

SO WE HAD OFFICE HOURS.

AND SO THEY WOULD COME, I'D SAY, OKAY, THEY'D EXPLAIN THE PROBLEM.

AND I'D SAY, OKAY, SO LAURA CAN TAKE CARE OF THAT, LAURA AND THEY'D SEND THEM TO LAURA AND LAURA WOULD WORK.

BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T COME MONDAY THROUGH FRIDAY, WHO CAN TAKE OFF FROM THEIR WORK DURING THAT TIME.

>>OR YOU COULD JUST COME, YOU COULD SCREAM AND YELL AT ME ABOUT HOW I DID BAD VOTES OR YOU COULD DO WHATEVER.

SO THIS ONE GUY, CRAIG WAS HIS NAME AND HE CAME UP AND HE STARTED TALKING TO ME ABOUT AUTISM.

THIS WAS EARLY ON IN MY CAREER, IN THE LATE 90S.

AND OF COURSE, WE DIDN'T KNOW THAT MUCH ABOUT AUTISM AT THAT POINT.

THIS WAS 30 YEARS AGO OR WHATEVER.

AND SO HE TOLD ME HE HAD A SON AND THAT WE NEEDED THESE KIND OF LAWS, AND "YOU NEED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS."

HE SAID TO ME.

AND I LOOKED AT HIM.

I SAID, "EXCUSE ME."

I SAID, "NO, I DON'T."

I SAID, "BUT WORKING TOGETHER, WE CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS."

I SAID, "THIS IS WHAT WE CAN DO."

I SAID, CRAIG, "I WILL GIVE YOU A DESK IN MY OFFICE HERE IN THE DISTRICT OFFICE.

AND YOU WILL HAVE RESOURCES.

YOU WILL HAVE A PHONE.

YOU WILL HAVE FAX.

YOU WILL HAVE..." AT THAT TIME WE HAD FAX, WE DIDN'T REALLY HAVE ELECTRONICS THAT MUCH.

I SAID, "YOU'LL HAVE A COMPUTER.

MY STAFF WILL HELP YOU, ET CETERA."

I SAID, "YOU SIT DOWN AND YOU START TO WORK ON WHAT IT IS, WHAT KIND OF BILL OR WHAT YOU WANT, WHAT KIND OF LAW YOU WANT, WHAT KIND OF PROGRAMS YOU WANT.

AND WE'LL WORK WITH YOU AND SEE IF WE CAN PASS SOME OF THIS."

AND TO HIS WORD, HE CAME IN AND HE DID THAT.

NOW, REMEMBER, I'M COMING HOME ONLY ON THE WEEKENDS.

USUALLY THAT'S MY... AND I'M AT WORKING, SATURDAYS AND SUNDAYS AND FRIDAYS, I'M OUT WORKING.

SO I'M NOT SEEING CRAIG IN MY LOCAL OFFICE.

AND OF COURSE, HE'S NOT IN DC WHEN I'M IN DC.

SO HE'S KIND OF OUT OF SIGHT OUT OF MIND.

I'M NOT THINKING ABOUT CRAIG.

BUT THEN LIKE THREE OR FOUR YEARS LATER, HE'S STANDING IN LINE AGAIN.

AND HE COMES UP.

I GO, "CRAIG, HOW YOU DOING?"

HE GOES, "OH, I'M DOING GREAT."

HE GOES, I WANT TO SHOW YOU ALL THE LAWS AND ALL THE THINGS WE WERE ABLE TO PASS AT THE STATE LEVEL AND THE FEDERAL LEVEL.

I SAID, "I KNOW I CARRIED AN AUTISM BILL AND WE PUT INTO THE MILITARY BILL AND..." HE GOES, "YES."

HE GOES, "WELL, BECAUSE YOU GAVE ME A PLACE TO SIT DOWN AND WORK ON THIS.

AND BECAUSE YOUR STAFF WAS ABLE TO GET OTHER PEOPLE WHO HAD AUTISTIC KIDS AND EVERYTHING."

HE GOES, "I WANT TO SHOW YOU THE BODY OF WORK THAT YOUR OFFICE HAS BEEN ABLE TO DO ON THIS."

AND IT WAS LIKE 20 LAWS AT THE STATE LEVEL AND LIKE TWO OR THREE LAWS AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL.

HE SAID, "I THOUGHT YOU SHOULD TAKE CARE OF IT.

BUT WHAT YOU SAID TO ME, LORETTA WAS WE SHOULD TAKE CARE OF IT."

AND I WAS JUST FLOORED.

I MEAN, I WAS ASTOUNDED THAT HE HAD BEEN ABLE TO DO SO MUCH BECAUSE ALL OF A SUDDEN HE HAD DESK TO CONCENTRATE AT AND A PHONE TO CALL.

NOT A VOLUNTEER, NOT A ANYTHING, BUT WORKING ON A PARTICULAR ISSUE.

>>WELL, YOU'RE DEALING WITH CONSTITUENTS OF COURSE THERE'S A PERSONAL ASPECT OF EMPOWERMENT.

BUT YOU ALSO, AS MEMBERS OF CONGRESS HAD TO DEAL WITH SERIOUS FOREIGN POLICY ISSUES, WHICH DON'T NECESSARILY TOUCH YOUR CONSTITUENTS DIRECTLY.

HOW HARD WAS IT FOR YOU TO JUSTIFY SPENDING YOUR TIME ON INTERNATIONAL ISSUES, WHICH DIDN'T REALLY CONNECT DIRECTLY TO CONSTITUENTS?

>>YEAH.

LET ME JUST SAY SOMETHING ABOUT THAT.

I HAD A DISTRICT, WHAT WE CALL A BREAD AND BUTTER DISTRICT.

THEY WANT TO KNOW, CAN YOU GET THE POTHOLE FIXED ON THE ROAD TO THEIR HOME?

CAN YOU GET A STOP LIGHT, TOO MANY PEOPLE ARE GETTING KILLED AT THE END OF MY BLOCK.

THINGS THAT ARE REALLY...

IF MOST PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND, THOSE ARE DONE AT A VERY LOCAL LEVEL.

SO OF COURSE I WOULD CALL THE CITY COUNCIL PERSON AND "HEY, WE NEED A STOP LIGHT HERE.

HEY, WE NEED A POTHOLE FILLED HERE."

MY SPECIALTY IN THE CONGRESS WAS NUCLEAR WARFARE, NON-PROLIFERATION, HOPEFULLY BRINGING DOWN THE THREAT AND SOME PROLIFERATION, WHO'S GOT THEM, HOW DO WE COUNT THEM?

WHAT'S GOING ON?

HOW DO WE GET PEOPLE NOT TO USE THEM RIGHT.

I MEAN, BUT VERY FAR REMOVED FROM YOUR DAILY LIVES.

>>YOU DON'T WAKE UP IN THE MORNING, SAY ARE NUCLEAR WEAPONS HEADED MY WAY?

MOST PEOPLE DON'T.

BUT THERE'S ALWAYS THE CASE THAT COULD BE THE THREAT ON ANY GIVEN DAY.

SO THE TYPES OF WORK THAT I WORKED ON, VERY INTERNATIONAL STUFF, WAR BIOCHEMICAL ATTACKS, WEAPONIZATION OF SPACE.

I MEAN, YOU NAME IT, FOREIGN OPS.

I MEAN THAT WAS MY SPECIALTY.

SO I'D GO TO WASHINGTON DC.

AND I WAS DOING THIS.

6:00 AM MEETINGS IN A CROWDED ROOM, TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHO'S GOING TO TRY TO HIT US NEXT, ET CETERA.

AND THEN I'D GO HOME ON THE WEEKENDS.

AND IT WAS LIKE, OH, DID WE GET THAT POTHOLE FIXED FOR YOU?

BECAUSE YOU CAN'T HOLD THE TOWN HALL ABOUT NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

>>I JUST PREVENTED NUCLEAR WAR, BUT I DID GET YOUR POTHOLE FILLED.

>>I GOT YOUR POTHOLE DONE.

SO I FELT REALLY LIKE A TWO-HEADED MEDUSA.

I'D GO TO DC, PUT ON MY WAR HAT, GO BACK TO CALIFORNIA, PUT ON MY POTHOLE HAT.

BUT THAT'S WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO.

>>WHAT ABOUT YOU CONGRESSMAN?

>>WELL, WHEN I FIRST WAS ELECTED, IT WAS A LONG TIME AGO, BILL FRENZEL, SEVERAL OTHER MEMBERS OF CONGRESS WHO WERE OLDER AND HAD BEEN THERE LONGER APPROACHED ME.

AND WHAT BILL SAID WAS, WOULD YOU PLEASE BE WILLING TO SIGN UP AND GO TO DELEGATIONS TO JAPAN?

AND I SAID, "WHY SHOULD I DO THAT?"

>>AND HE SAID, WELL, THEY'RE AT THAT TIME, THE SECOND BIGGEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD, WE'D HAD A WAR.

WE'RE NOW CLOSE ALLIES.

WE'RE VERY DIFFERENT CULTURES.

IT'S IMPORTANT TO KEEP COMMUNICATIONS GOING, AND YOU'RE A MEMBER OF CONGRESS.

AND FOR THE GOOD OF THE ORDER, YOU SHOULD PUT SOME TIME IN ON THAT.

SO I MUST HAVE GONE TO JAPAN ABOUT 30 TIMES IN MY CAREER.

AT THE END OF IT I WAS HONORED.

EMPEROR AKAHITO GAVE ME THE ORDER OF THE RISING SUN AT A CEREMONY AT THE IMPERIAL PALACE IN TOKYO, WHICH WAS KIND OF A FUN SORT OF A THING.

AND IF MY CONSTITUENTS WOULD ASK ME ABOUT IT, I DIDN'T PUBLICIZE IT PARTICULAR OR ANYTHING ELSE.

AND I WAS GOING BACK AND FORTH ALWAYS.

SO I WOULD GO, YOU'D SIT ON A PLANE ALL NIGHT AND THEN BE IN JAPAN FOR THREE DAYS AND THEN SIT ON A PLANE ALL NIGHT AND COME BACK.

AND THAT WOULD BE IT.

>>BUT PEOPLE THINK WE TAKE THESE POLITICAL JUNKETS?

LET ME TELL YOU, IT'S A LOT OF WORK AND YOU ARRIVE AT THESE COUNTRIES AND YOU'RE JET LAGGED, AND YOU HAVE THESE MEETINGS WITH PEOPLE.

YOU GOT TO BE ON TOP OF IT, BECAUSE YOU CAN'T SAY BAD THINGS AND ANYTHING CAN BE MISINTERPRETED.

>>BUT LIKE ANYTHING ELSE, IT CAN BE ABUSED, BUT THERE'S ALSO, IT CAN BE USEFUL.

AND WE WANT TO BUILD UNDERSTANDING, AND NOT ONLY STUDENT EXCHANGES AND BUSINESS GROUPS DO EXCHANGES.

IN WISCONSIN, WE HAD A BIG FARMER AGRICULTURE.

A LOT OF PEOPLE FROM WISCONSIN WENT OVER TO THE EASTERN EUROPE AND THE SOVIET UNION TO HELP FARMERS MODERNIZE THEIR PROCEDURES AFTER WARS OR THE TENSION BETWEEN EAST AND WEST ENDED, TOWARD THE END OF THE LAST CENTURY.

>>AND CONGRESS CAN PLAY A ROLE IN THE SAME WAY.

I ALWAYS FELT GUILTY WHILE BEING IN CONGRESS BECAUSE I WAS ASKED OVER AND OVER AGAIN TO PARTICIPATE IN US, CANADIAN EXCHANGES, IT WAS RIGHT NEXT DOOR, BUT THEY WERE ALWAYS ON A WEEKEND.

AND MY GOAL WAS TO BE BACK IN THE SUMMER.

AND MY GOAL WAS TO BE... BECAUSE IT'S SO COLD IN CANADA, LIKE WISCONSIN WAS TO BE BACK HOME.

WE HAD A LOT OF PARADES AND COMMUNITY FESTIVALS AND PICNICS.

AND 90% OF POLITICS AND A LOT OF LIFE IS SHOWING UP.

AND I ALWAYS WOULD TRY TO SHOW UP IN THIS DISTRICT FOR COMMUNITY EVENTS IF I POSSIBLY COULD.

AND SO WHEN I WASN'T REELECTED, WHEN I WASN'T RUNNING FOR REELECTION, MY LAST TERM, I DID PARTICIPATE IN THE CANADIAN EXCHANGES.

>>US CANADIAN EXCHANGE.

>>AND IT WAS REALLY A LOT OF FUN AND I WISH I'D DONE IT SOONER, BUT WE ALL HAVE TO HAVE OUR PRIORITIES.

AND I DID THE JAPAN THING.

AND THEN I DID GERMANY AND BRITAIN LATER ALSO, BECAUSE I THOUGHT THOSE WERE IMPORTANT RELATIONSHIPS AND PEOPLE THOUGHT I COULD MAKE A CONTRIBUTION.

>>SO WE ONLY HAVE ABOUT A MINUTE AND A HALF LEFT.

SO REAL QUICK YOU SPEAK ABOUT RELATIONSHIPS AND ABOUT SHOWING UP.

HOW DID YOU BALANCE YOUR POLITICAL LIFE AND YOUR FAMILY LIVES?

>>PROBABLY NOT AS WELL AS WE SHOULD HAVE.

I THINK SPOUSES ARE THE MOST ABUSED, NOT BY US, BUT BECAUSE WE'RE OUT AT THINGS.

SO I NEVER REALIZED THAT.

I MEAN, I WAS ALWAYS OUT AT THINGS AND SOME OF THE THINGS AREN'T THAT FUN QUITE FRANKLY.

BUT YOU HAVE TO SHOW THAT YOU'RE HAVING FUN OBVIOUSLY.

BUT FOR THE FUN THINGS, I WOULD TELL MY HUSBAND, "OH, YOU SHOULD GO TO THIS, YOU WILL ENJOY THIS."

OR WHAT HAVE YOU.

BUT I USED TO KEEP HIM OUT FROM NOT HAVING TO GO OUT EVERY NIGHT.

WE'D BE HOME IN THE DISTRICT.

AND GOING OUT TO THIS GALA, AND THAT GALA, THIS THING.

I SAID, "YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO TO THIS.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO TO THIS."

BUT WHAT I DIDN'T REALIZE IS I WAS HELPING HIM BY NOT HAVING TO GO AND PUT ON A SHOW AT ALL.

BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, HE WAS SITTING AT HOME ALONE.

SO IT'S VERY DIFFICULT ON SPOUSES.

>>YEAH.

WE JUST HAD ONE DAUGHTER AND MY WIFE MADE VERY CAREFUL NOT TO TELL HER THAT SHE HAD TO PARTICIPATE IN SOME OF THESE PARADES AND EVERYTHING ELSE.

WE'D SAY IT WAS AN OPPORTUNITY.

IF SHE'D LIKE TO DO IT.

AND SO SHE ALWAYS THOUGHT IT WAS FUN TO GO TO THESE PARADES.

AND WHEN SHE WAS VERY LITTLE I'D WHEEL HER IN HER BUGGY ON DOWN THE PARADE ROUTE.

AND THEN SHE GOT A LITTLE BIGGER.

SHE WAS ONLY A THING, BUT SHE WOULD WALK ON THE PARADE ROUTE WITH STILTS AND SHE'D GET TIRED, SHE'D STOP.

SHE'D WAVE THE STILTS AND BOW.

AND THEN WHEN SHE GOT- >>SOUNDS LIKE A VOTE GETTER FOR YOU.

>>AND THEN WHEN SHE GOT A BIT BIGGER, I WOULD HAND OUT LITERATURE ON ONE SIDE OF THE STREET AND SHE'D HAND OUT LITERATURE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STREET.

AND SHE ALWAYS SORT OF ENJOYED IT.

AND I TOLD HER IT WAS FUN.

YOU'LL GET AN OPPORTUNITY, WE'LL GO TO COUNTY FAIRS.

EACH COUNTY FAIR WAS A SPECIALTY, IT'S THE ICE CREAM SUNDAY OR THE CREAM PUFF OR WHATEVER.

>>WE COULD GO TO THAT ICE CREAM PLACE.

>>SO ANYWAY, SO THAT'S HOW WE TRIED TO HANDLE IT, IT WAS TO MAKE IT AS FUN AS POSSIBLE.

>>BALANCE.

>>WELL, I WANT TO THANK YOU BOTH FOR JOINING US TODAY.

I CAN'T BELIEVE OUR CONVERSATIONS OVER ALREADY, BUT WE HOPE TO HAVE YOU ON THE SHOW AGAIN.

>>THANK YOU FOR HAVING US, BEAUTIFUL CAMPUS.

>>WELL, THANK YOU SO MUCH, IT'S BEEN REALLY A PLEASURE TO BE HERE >>AND THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

WE'LL SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEK ON ANOTHER EPISODE OF GLOBAL PERSPECTIVES.