>>Thi week on NewsNight Conversations as Central Florida students prepare to return to class following the summer break.

Public school districts face a challenging year.

Tonigh amid a large drop in enrollment, a conversation with the superintendent of Orange County Public Schools about what it means for funding, and how administrators hope to reverse the decline.

NewsNight Conversations starts now.

[MUSIC] Hello, I'm Steve Mort with a special edition of NewsNight Conversations.

Dr. Maria Vazquez has been in her role as superintendent of Orange County Public Schools since 2022.

She had previously been an educator for more than three decades, and the district's deputy superintendent since 2018.

Since taking the hel three years ago, Florida's K-12 education system has faced significant challenges, including devastating learning losses triggered by Covid lockdowns.

But possibly the biggest challenge since the pandemic is enrollment.

I sat down recently with Maria Vazquez at Orange County Public School's Ronal Blocker Educational Leadership Center in downtown Orlando for a wide ranging interview.

And we started with the decline in enrollment.

>>So there is a couple of factors that have contributed to that decline.

One is a small impact, and that's birth rates.

Birth rates have been declining since, Covid, and it's going to take us, several years to pick back up.

But the greatest impact has been the state's, voucher program that gives families who choose to participate approximately $8,000 to, homeschool or send their child to a private school.

>>You've talked abou your support for school choice.

>>I have.

>>But I wonder whether you can have school choice at the same time as having thriving public schools.

Does that cause a problem in public education?

>>So I am a very strong, supporter of school choice.

Parents are their child's first teacher.

I personally had three children, all very different, and I believe tha they have the right to be able to evaluate what supports and resources are available for their children to be educated.

What I have a problem with is not properly funding those choice options, and I believe the state could do that if they chose to do so.

What's happened is that they have said that they have, you know, taken some of those dollars and put it back in through the, base student allocation.

But when you take a look at the amount of money, the increase, which is, approximately, I think $45, that doesn't begin to cover the losses that we are experiencin because of the choice program.

Another benefit of choice is that it makes us better because we're able to see where students are thriving, what parents want.

But when we're handcuffed because we don't have the dollars to be able t provide the necessary resources and support, then I think that's not an equitable system.

>>Well, let's talk a little bit about that state funding then that enrollment drop that we discussed could result in I think it's close to a $27 million reduction.

>>Yeah.

20 almost 28 million.

>>Almost 28 million for for OCPS.

I wonder how you address that shortfall in the near medium and long term.

I mean, how much of your budget is going to need to be trimmed as a result of that?

>>It was painful.

We first of all, looked at the district divisions and asked them to implement a 2% cut for, this upcoming school year.

Our district has been very data driven over the last several years, and that includes, looking at academic returns of investment.

And so we, looked at all of our programs, identified how much the cost of those programs were to our district.

And then we looked at our return on investment.

What were the outcomes that we were receiving?

>>How do you judge that in education?

By grades?

>>There's various metrics that we use depending on the service.

So for example, if we were looking at tutoring services we would take a look at participation.

We would take a look at, some formative data.

We would look at our summative data and then determine whether those investments, yielded positive results.

And from that list, then we were able to identify those areas that were not giving us the greatest return on investment.

>>What does that mean for teachers, particularly when it comes to enrollment?

Because presumably fewer students, you need fewer teachers.

That's got to be difficult, right?

I mean, what are you looking at in terms of the number of teachers you have?

>>We went through that process in the spring when our schools received their budgets, they were adjusted for the enrollment.

And so in many of our schools, you saw fewer, personnel that were needed because the student are not projected to be there.

We did, have vacancies, after that, some of the personnel that wer cut were temporary certificates or people that were not here for the, the entire year.

And so automatically by contract, they're cut.

And so we were able to bring some of them back to fill those positions, but it wasn't, a net win.

So we did have to have schools cut teachers, because the student are not projected to be there.

>>You've also paused construction of new schools.

>>New construction, yes.

>>That seems unusual, give that a region is fast growing.

We always talk about fast growing regions as needing doctors and transport and schools.

You've actually paused that.

Is that a a long term strategy?

Do you think you're going to be able to hold off on new school construction for the foreseeable future?

>>So every year we, evaluate, the list of, of schools in our ten year plan.

And we look at the numbers, we see if the growth that was projected is still there and we adjust.

It's not an unusual process.

What is unusual is the number of schools that have been pushed bac 2 or 3 years, because the growth has not materialized.

And so we, expect that within the course of, 2 to 3 years, those that were pushed back are going to be at the number needed for the new construction.

And our projections do show that over the next 5 to 7 years, our enrollment is going to be back to where we we expected i to be, that declining enrollment and that the birth rates are going to be a thing of the past.

>>But you're still going to need to do some work here in terms of promoting the value of public schools.

Clearly it's a marketplace at this point, right?

I mean, parents put their mone or put their faith in wherever they're sending their kids.

And at the moment, a lot of them, obviously, thanks to, support from the state, are sending their children to private schools or exploring other options.

What do you do as a public educator when it comes to trying to attract people to public education, to your school system?

>>So first, I want to make sure that I'm clear the vast majority of parents are still choosing, public schools.

I believe the percentage that are choosing, the voucher program is in the single single digit-- >>It's a growing number though isn't it?

>>Absolutely, has grown over the last several years.

But for us, I still believe that if you do your research, we are the best, best, educational system for your child.

It puts us in a position that we haven't been in where we do have to look at marketing.

We have to take a look at what we're offering.

We have to take a loo at how we are telling our story.

And what are our children, our students saying about their experience and then responding to their needs.

So if there are specialize programs that parents want more of, we need to be able to be flexible and be able to provide that.

What's been interesting is that some of the some of the responses from some parents, they really want a basic education.

And when I probe that they'r not as interested in technology.

They want their child to be able to read and write fluently.

They want them to hav a positive experience at school, to learn how to get along, to problem solve.

And so if one is not listening or asking and listening, one would make the wrong assumptions.

And so for us, it's a matter of expanding magnet programs, expanding choice programs for our families, and ensuring that the experiences they are getting in our schools are positive ones and that we're sharing that.

[MUSIC] >>What happens if the Department of Education is eliminated on the federal level, or at least drastically cut?

The U.S. Supreme Court has given the administration the green light to move ahead with a lot of its plans on education.

What does that mean for a local school district here in Florida?

>>That's a great question.

I don't know what that's going to mean for us.

I know that currentl there is a great deal of angst because we depend on the, Department of Education to give guidance, to us.

We're very large country, diverse.

And while I will acknowledge that there were probably inefficiencies that were wasted dollars, at the, at that level, what we are doing now is creating much more anxiety, and I don't believe it's going to result in bette outcomes or more efficiencies.

>>Some better news.

Orange County Public Schools and many others around the state got an A grade again, from the state.

There has been some pushback on the accuracy of these of how the grades are issued.

There's some talk of grade inflation.

Schools, continue to to improve across Florida, according to the state.

What do you think about th accuracy of these assessments?

>>Whe I look at our grading criteria, I believe that it, accounts for a number of variables that include proficiency and include growth.

[SPEAKING SPANISH] >>I mean we have we have a very diverse population.

I love to say that we serve this beautiful tapestry of children.

They come from various backgrounds.

Some of them don't speak English or are just learning the language.

And so the expectations and what you, that child may be able to produce as far as proficiency in their secon or third year, is very different than someone that has lived here and is a native speaker.

But what you ca measure is their improvements.

I do believe that you have to look at both.

We have seen not only growth, but we've als seen increases in proficiency.

I also want to sa that the new assessment system that the state of Florida put into place, has helped us tremendously to be able to identify much sooner if a child is struggling so that we can then intervene and provide the necessary support so that the child can do better.

And I think there isn't enough conversation around what the impact of the new assessment, has had on the scores, because now you have a snapshot at the beginning of the year, you have a snapshot in the middle of the year.

Parents have access to that.

And so they to can work in partnership with us to help their child overcome some of those deficit areas or the area that they have not yet mastered.

>>It's interesting because the learning gains, part of this is one of the things that that critics point to, as being harde to prove than just the raw data, whether kids aced their tests or not.

And that should be how school districts are judged, presumably.

And it sounds like you push back on that.

>>I do, because, it's a very complex system.

It's.

And when you are looking at how the child is, is doing, growth is part of it.

We're not all starting out at the same page, and they're not giving, more weight to one area than, than another.

And so the component of proficiency in ELA, mathematics, science at the upper grades, you have, civics and, social studies.

The learning gains only occur in the areas of ELA in mathematics.

You also have the graduation component, and you also have the acceleration component for the, the high school has both of those and the middle school also has acceleration.

Is it a perfect system?

No.

I think it would be very difficult to to come up with a syste that you have, 100% agreement.

Could there be other things we look at?

Could you look at attendance?

Absolutely.

Could you look at, community service and see if the how many of our students are participating in community service?

Yes.

You could.

Woul it be a more realistic picture?

I don't know.

[MUSIC] >>Please don't do this to our kids.

Please give them an option to reach legal adulthood.

>>To me, this is just enticing children.

It's giving them, putting those thoughts in their head.

And I think it's highly inappropriate.

>>I don't think that this is inappropriate for that child, for that age group.

So-- >>There' been a laser focus on education, particularly in Florida.

There's ofte a focus on education in Florida.

But in recent years, it's really been at the center of a lot of the political discourse.

School districts like yours have been dragged into a lot of these culture war debates that we've seen in Tallahassee.

And I wonder what you make of the effect that that has bot on administrators and teachers, on a practical level, how you go about doing your job as your have your practice has had to change significantly in recent years, particularly since Covid?

>>I would have to say yes.

And I don't think that it's all bad.

Right?

I think that some of the changes that have come about were necessary.

But I find myself struggling to ensure that our teachers can come in and teach our children without having that added weight that the political climate, has had.

We are very clear on the standards that need to be taught.

We have a concerted effor to ensure that all new policies, regulations, that the laws that come down that are followed, that we put in place, systems that clearly communicate what we can and what we can't do.

But the emotion that is tied to some of the changes that have been taking place, that have taken place in education, creat an environment for our teachers and our children that I believe competes with having that saf environment where you learn and it's not something that when I was appointed superintendent, if you asked m that was something we're going to have to deal with, I would have said, yes, that's going that's on my radar.

I know I've got to deal with it.

I knew I would have to deal with it as part of my job.

I knew it would be something that as a board, we would have to work on.

But as I'm having conversations with teachers and their perceptions of the impact the laws have had on on them and their practice, and not feeling safe that someone could just wrongly accused them.

And then they have to go through that ordeal of being investigated, providing, you know, testimony is one that was not there.

And I think that it has created a, a deterrence.

And the fact that we now have politics that have that has become a reason wh people are not going into that field, is very is very is very sad.

>>Supporters would say, you know that it's about parental rights.

Parental rights, as you know we hear a lot about in Florida.

>>Yes.

that goes to the ability of parents to challenge thing that happen in the classrooms, whether it's pronoun use or various books or reading materials, LGBTQ issues, that kind of thing.

Is it good that parents have the ability to have a greater sa in their children's education?

Is that what's going on here?

Is it just democratization of of education?

>>So parents, absolutely should have and do have, a voice in education.

I think what has happened is that things are not always black or white.

And, what your beliefs are may not be mine.

And that has created, a tension that is, deterring dialog.

And I understand parents were upset because things were happening with their child and they weren't aware of it.

>>And we saw that play out here in this very room.

>>Yes.

And I and I think as a parent that's you have the right to know I believe that wholeheartedly.

The rub comes when the perception that the child is not going to be accepted, or that the child's parent is going to may - and I'm just using the topic of LGBTQ.

Teachers have acted in a way where they thought they were protecting the child, and that may or may not have been the case, but that was their belief.

And so instead of us being able to have a conversation about why they acted in the way they did, it's automatically assumed it was wrong.

And so I think it's important for the teachers to be able to stand how that parent feels.

That's my child.

How is it that you did not tell me?

Did you just make the assumption that I wouldn't accept my child?

And then for the paren to understand, I didn't mean any harm from this.

Your child genuinely was afraid that this was.

They were not going to be accepted.

And so I was trying to provide the support necessary.

But that just.

But we were not in that place anymore.

And so we will we follow the law.

I try to model diplomacy.

I try to model, trying to get along and listen to others.

It doesn't mean I always agree, but I will respect you, and I will, I will give you the time to to try and explain to me your stance.

>>I want to finish by looking ahead at the school yea that starts in just a few days.

There is a new law in schools around the state that will prevent the use of cell phones and wireless devices, K-8.

You guys have been doing something similar to this for a while.

Presumabl this is a law that you welcome.

What benefits have you seen?

>>Right.

We have seen tremendous benefits from, limiting the use of cell phones during this school day.

We actually implemented, as part of our code of conduct two years ago that cell phone were not allowed Bell to Bell.

Parents had one big concern.

Actually two.

They wanted to make sure that they could reach their child if they needed to.

And if there was, an active assailant on campus, how could they ensure their child was safe?

And so we did two things.

Each school has a process by which if a child needs to communicate with their parent, they're able to do so.

And if the parent reaches out to the school messages, or they're able to talk to their child.

And then the second, a concern, we addressed, in a more informal fashion that, if there is an active assail - or they're in a lockdown mode if they have their cell phones, they can access them and they can text.

We explained to parents you don't really want your child talking on the phone, because any noise could alert if there is an intruder that there's someone in that room.

And so it has worked.

We have seen a decline in some of our discipline offenses that include disruptions, fighting, both at the elementary and at the high school level.

Teachers are seeing that they have much fewer, interruptions in the classroom.

Student are saying that they are able, you know, to pay attention because they don't have those disruptions.

And so I think that has all helped the implementation to go smoother than it might have.

>>We've talked a lot today about the need to communicate with parents, and I wonder how you, planning on doing that going forward in terms o how do you keep parents in touch with what you're doing?

All aspects of their children's education.

Do you have a plan for that this year?

>>One of the things I'm very excited about is we're implementing, reall two new tools to help parents, maneuve through, our, our website and, and gather information or gain answers to their questions.

And it's called Let's Talk.

It is, aimed at using AI to help parents get information quickly.

That may already be on our website.

And if it's not, i directs into the right person.

And then the second tool, which is going to have an impact across our entire district, is ParentSquare, it's a new communication platform that we are using.

It consolidates all of our tools onto one platform.

It officially launched, a few, a few weeks ago.

And we are very, very excited.

The capability for the schools to send out information, teachers to be able to communicate with students and their families, individually, as well as a whole, all of our websites are now through that system because we want to make communication as easy as possible.

And this new platform helps streamline so much.

And so I'm very excited about the the new platform.

>>In that class, you were unapologetically proud of us and-- >>You got a lot on your shoulders.

Are you optimistic for the future with all these changes coming down the pipe from th on the state and federal level?

As an educator, how do you look at the landscape now?

Do you see a rosy future for education, public education in particular?

>>I am hopeful.

I'm also very cognizant that I'm in a unique position.

I have an incredible board.

I have a communit that supports public education.

They believe the power in educating our children and even when we have the the chaos that we are, facing right now, they believe in us.

They believe that durin the time children are with us, they're getting an excellent education and that it is going to transform them and it's going to transform our community.

And so I am very hopeful.

I'm also resilient, so I'm not going to give up when things get hard.

So we'll wait and see.

But I am I'm going to continue to look at this as the glass is half full.

And right now we're just feeling a little bit of pain.

>>Well Maria Vazquez thank you so much for sitting down with us.

>>It's been a pleasure.

Thank you.

>>Maria Vazquez speaking to me ahead of the new school year.

You can find more from my interview with the superintendent of Orange Count Public Schools on our website.

We talked about other issues affecting the district.

You'll also find a link to the full text of June's State of the Schools address there as well.

It's all at wucf.org/newsnight.

NewsNight will be taking a break next week, but we will return the following Friday night at 8:30 here on WUCF.

And in the meantime, for all of us here at NewsNight take care and have a great week.