>>WHEN IT COMES TO ISSUES FACING THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY IN CENTRAL FLORIDA, THERE ARE IMPORTANT, SOMETIMES DIFFICULT CONVERSATIONS TO BE HAD.

CONVERSATIONS THAT DO MORE THAN ADDRESS THE CHALLENGES, BUT ALSO PRESENT OPPORTUNITIES FOR BREAKING THE CYCLE.

HELLO, I'M STEVE MORT.

WELCOME TO OUR NEWSNIGHT CONVERSATIONS SERIES, BREAKING THE CYCLE, LOOKING AT KEY ISSUES FACING CENTRAL FLORIDA'S AFRICAN-AMERICAN FAMILIES.

WE RECENTLY HELD A SERIES OF LISTENING SESSIONS WITH BLACK COMMUNITY LEADERS TO FIND OUT WHAT THEY FELT WITH THE ISSUES WE SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT.

OVERWHELMINGLY, THEY TOLD US THEY WANTED TO HEAR MORE ABOUT SOLUTIONS TO SOME OF THE SYSTEMIC PROBLEMS FACING THE COMMUNITY.

IN OUR FIRST DISCUSSION TONIGHT, WE TACKLE AFFORDABLE HOUSING, HOW OUR REGION'S CRITICAL SHORTAGE OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING AFFECTS THE AFRICAN AMERICAN POPULATION IN CENTRAL FLORIDA AND POSSIBLE WAYS TO BREAK THE CYCLE.

MY COLLEAGUE FROM WFTV CHANNEL 9, DARALENE JONES, IS HERE TO HELP ME MODERATE THE DISCUSSION THIS EVENING.

JOINING US IN THE STUDIO FOR THIS IMPORTANT CONVERSATION ARE DESIREE STENNETT, WHO COVERS RACE AND INEQUALITY FOR THE ORLANDO SENTINEL, HANK VAN PUTTEN, A FACILITATOR AND ANTI-RACIST EDUCATOR AT VALENCIA COLLEGE'S PEACE AND JUSTICE INSTITUTE, CATHERINE STECK MCMANUS, PRESIDENT AND CEO OF HABITAT FOR HUMANITY OF GREATER ORLANDO AND OSCEOLA COUNTY, AND MITCHELL GLASSER, THE MANAGER OF ORANGE COUNTY HOUSING DEVELOPMENT.

BEFORE WE BEGIN OUR DISCUSSION, I WANT TO PLAY YOU PART OF AN INTERVIEW I DID RECENTLY WITH OREN HENRY, THE DIRECTOR OF HOUSING AND COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT AT THE CITY OF ORLANDO.

I ASKED HIM ABOUT THE SCALE OF THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING SHORTAGE IN OUR COMMUNITY.

>>THERE'S A LARGE POPULATION, MAYBE HALF OF THE RENTERS OR MORE ARE PAYING MORE THAN 30% OF THEIR INCOME FOR RENT AND UTILITIES, AND A LARGE PROPORTION OF THOSE ARE PAYING EVEN MORE THAN 50%.

BUT THIS PROBLEM DIDN'T HAPPEN OVERNIGHT OR WITH THE PANDEMIC.

IT'S BEEN A GROWING PROBLEM FOR YEARS AND NOT ONLY IN ORLANDO, BUT IN A LOT OF GROWING COMMUNITIES IN THIS COUNTRY.

>>PEW RESEARCH FINDS THAT BLACK FAMILIES REALLY STRUGGLE TO ACCUMULATE WEALTH, MAINLY BECAUSE THERE'S THIS FUNDAMENTAL DIFFICULTY IN ACCESSING THE HOUSING MARKET.

AND I WONDER WHETHER YOU HAVE ANY THOUGHTS ON WHY PEOPLE OF COLOR AND PARTICULARLY AFRICAN AMERICANS HAVE SUCH A HARD TIME IN GETTING A FOOT ON THAT LADDER.

>>YES.

WELL, THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

AND OF COURSE, IT'S BEEN GOING ON PROBABLY BACK FROM WHEN THEY STARTED KEEPING STATISTICS.

THROUGHOUT HISTORY, THERE HAVE BEEN A NUMBER OF ISSUES THAT HAVE CAUSED BLACK FAMILIES TO NOT BE ABLE TO ACCESS CREDIT OR EVEN TO ACCESS THE HOUSING WITH DISCRIMINATION AND SUCH, COULDN'T MOVE INTO THE NEIGHBORHOODS OF THEIR CHOICE.

THEN, WHEN YOU THROW IN OTHER FACTORS THAT AFFECT EVERYBODY SUCH AS THE GREAT DEPRESSION OR THE RECESSION WE HAD 10, 12 YEARS AGO, OR NOW THE PANDEMIC, A LOT OF TIMES A RACE'S GAINS THAT POPULATION HAS MADE OVER THE YEARS AND THEN THEY'RE KIND OF BACK NOT TO SQUARE ONE, BUT THEY'RE NOT AS FAR AS THEY WERE.

SO THIS IS JUST ANOTHER OBSTACLE IN TRYING TO GET MORE PARITY IN BETWEEN WHITES AND BLACKS.

>>WELL OUR VIEWERS CAN SEE MORE OF THE INTERVIEW WITH OREN HENRY ON OUR WEBSITE.

DESIREE, LET ME START WITH YOU.

WHY DO WE HAVE ON A FUNDAMENTAL LEVEL, SUCH AN ISSUE WITH AFFORDABLE HOUSING HERE IN CENTRAL FLORIDA?

THIS IS A BIG PART OF YOUR BEAT.

>>ABSOLUTELY.

I THINK A PART OF THE REASON THAT THERE'S SUCH AN ISSUE WITH AFFORDABLE HOUSING IS BECAUSE WE ALSO HAVE ISSUES WITH WAGES HERE.

OUR ECONOMY DEPENDS SO HEAVILY ON TOURISM AND THE JOBS THAT ARE NEEDED TO PROP THE TOURISM ECONOMY UP HERE ARE JOBS THAT GENERALLY DON'T PAY HIGH WAGES.

THESE ARE JOBS THAT ARE A BIG PART OF THE PUSH FOR $15 AN HOUR, FOR EXAMPLE, AND EVEN IF APARTMENTS ARE NOT EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE, WHEN YOUR WAGES ARE LOW, IT JUST LIMITS WHAT YOU CAN AFFORD.

THAT PUTS YOU IN A PRETTY SHAKY STANDING, EVEN IN GOOD TIMES.

AND OF COURSE, IN THE LAST TWO YEARS OF DEALING WITH THIS PANDEMIC, A LOT OF PEOPLE'S LIVES WERE UPENDED, PEOPLE WHO WERE SORT OF LIVING PAYCHECK TO PAYCHECK TO BEGIN WITH WHO ARE OUT OF WORK UNEXPECTEDLY.

WE WERE JUST IN A DIFFICULT SITUATION TO BEGIN WITH AND THEN THE PANDEMIC ONLY MADE IT WORSE.

>>HANK, WE HEARD OREN SPEAK TO THIS VAGUELY THERE, BUT LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE SPECIFICALLY ABOUT WHY THIS IMPACTS AFRICAN AMERICANS SPECIFICALLY AND THEM ENTERING THE HOUSING MARKET.

>>THANKS FOR THE QUESTION, DARALENE.

I THINK THAT FOR ME, IT BEGINS WITH HISTORY.

WHAT WE'RE SEEING NOW IS A SYMPTOM OF A LONGER HISTORY OF INJUSTICE TOWARD IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, AFRICAN AMERICAN FOLKS, BUT ALSO FOR FOLKS WHO, OTHER FOLKS OF COLOR, AS WELL AS FOLKS WHO IDENTIFY AS WHITE AND WHO ARE POOR.

SO THAT HISTORY BUILDS UP OVER TIME AND IT IS EXACERBATED EACH GENERATION THAT GOES ON.

SO THAT FOR EXAMPLE, I CAME ACROSS A STATISTIC ABOUT EQUAL PAY DAYS.

IF WE PUT A WHITE MAN AT JANUARY THE FIRST, IT WOULD TAKE AN ASIAN WOMAN TOWARD THE END OF FEBRUARY TO EARN THE SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY.

IT WOULD TAKE A WHITE WOMAN INTO APRIL TO EARN THE SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY.

IT WOULD TAKE A BLACK WOMAN WELL INTO JUNE AND JULY TO EARN THE SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY.

IT WOULD TAKE A HISPANIC WOMAN ALMOST TO THE END OF NOVEMBER TO EARN THE SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY.

SO HISTORICALLY, THESE OBSTACLES HAVE BEEN PUT IN PLACE.

WHAT WE'RE SEEING I BELIEVE IS A SYMPTOM RATHER THAN THE PROBLEM.

>>GENERATIONAL WEALTH ISSUES... >>GENERATIONAL, YES.

YES.

>>IT REALLY GOES, DOESN'T IT, BEYOND THE HOUSING MARKET AND THAT ACCESS TO THE HOUSING MARKET ISSUE IS BECAUSE OF A WHOLE RANGE OF FACTORS, AS YOU MENTIONED, THAT SORT OF STRUCTURAL AND SYSTEMIC ISSUES IN SOCIETY.

AND I GUESS THE HOUSING MARKET IS JUST SORT OF ONE OF THE MANIFESTATIONS OF THAT.

>>YES, COLLEGE DEGREES AND EDUCATION, POTENTIAL FOR UPWARD MOBILITY, DENIAL OF MORTGAGES, NOT BEING ABLE TO TAKE TIME OFF TO TAKE CARE OF A CHILD OR A SICK PARENT WHEN IT'S EITHER THE JOB OR BY PARENT.

>>DESIREE, YOU REPORTED EXTENSIVELY AN INCREDIBLE PIECE OF WORK THAT YOU DID LAST YEAR, FOCUSING SPECIFICALLY ON THE DISPARITIES IN THE EVICTION AND THE RENTAL MARKET.

TALK TO US ABOUT WHAT YOU FOUND AND WHAT YOU'RE SEEING HERE IN CENTRAL FLORIDA, AS IT RELATES TO THAT.

>>WE LOOKED AT ZIP CODES TO UNDERSTAND THIS.

THERE WERE TWO ZIP CODES THAT WE THOUGHT ILLUSTRATED THE PROBLEM QUITE WELL, BOTH WERE IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA.

ONE WAS 32805, WHICH INCLUDES PARRAMORE.

THAT ZIP CODES IS 75% BLACK.

AND IN COMPARISON, WE HAVE 32803, WHICH INCLUDES LAKE EOLA HEIGHTS AND SPREADS ALL THE WAY DOWN TO LAKE UNDERHILL.

THAT IS 73% WHITE.

THE DISPARITY BETWEEN THOSE TWO ZIP CODES IS PRETTY STARK.

IN PARRAMORE, ONE IN 10 PEOPLE FACED EVICTION AT SOME POINT BETWEEN 2019 AND 2020, THAT'S A REGULAR YEAR AND A PANDEMIC YEAR.

BUT IN 32803, JUST A FEW MILES AWAY WHERE IT'S PREDOMINANTLY WHITE, ONE IN 50 PEOPLE FACED EVICTION IN THAT SAME TIME.

AND YOU MENTIONED HOUSING AS SORT OF ONE OF THE FACTORS WHERE THE WEALTH GAP MANIFESTS ITSELF.

BUT I WOULD ARGUE THAT IT'S NOT JUST ONE OF THE FACTORS BUT THE MOST IMPORTANT ONE, BECAUSE SO MANY PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY, IF YOU'RE BUILDING WEALTH, YOU'RE MOST LIKELY DOING IT THROUGH HOME OWNERSHIP AND HOUSING.

>>WHEN WE HAVE A SITUATION WHERE THERE IS NOT AN INCOME BRACKET AMONG WHITE FOLKS WHERE THERE ARE MORE RENTERS THAN HOMEOWNERS, WHEREAS IN CONTRAST FOR BLACK ORLANDO RESIDENTS OR BLACK FLORIDA RESIDENT, WE DON'T HIT A ZIP CODE WHERE THERE ARE...

SORRY, INCOME LEVEL, WHERE THERE ARE MORE HOMEOWNERS AND RENTERS UNTIL WE HIT THE HIGHEST LEVELS OF INCOMES, THAT JUST PUTS BLACK RESIDENTS IN A POSITION WHERE THEY ARE MORE LIKELY TO BE RENTING AND THEREFORE MUCH MORE LIKELY TO BE HURT BY EVICTION.

>>DOES THAT SORT OF JIVE WITH WHAT YOU SEE?

OBVIOUSLY PEOPLE'S HOMES ARE A MASSIVE SOURCE OF THEIR INCOME FOR MOST AMERICANS.

>>DEFINITELY.

WHAT WE'RE SEEING HERE IN ORLANDO AND CENTRAL FLORIDA IS REALLY WHAT WE'RE SEEING AROUND THE NATION, IS THERE'S THIS DEFICIT OF HOMES THAT HAVE BEEN BUILT REALLY SINCE THE GREAT RECESSION.

AND WHILE OUR ECONOMY WAS GROWING AT A STEADY PACE, THERE JUST WASN'T THIS INFLUX OF POPULATION GROWTH THAT WE'RE HAVING HERE IN CENTRAL FLORIDA.

ALSO, WITH THE PANDEMIC IT'S CHANGED TO WHERE PEOPLE CAN WORK AND LIVE.

THAT'S JUST PUT SUCH A DEMAND ON HOUSING.

AND AS WE'RE SEEING, OUR RENTAL MARKET IS PRETTY MUCH FULL.

SO WHEN YOU HAVE A MARKET THAT IS LIKE 95, 96, 98% FULL, THERE'S NO ROOM TO HAVE RENTS STABILIZE OR DECREASE.

AND WE'RE IN A CYCLE THAT IS REALLY TOUGH TO BREAK.

>>CATHERINE, YOU DEAL WITH THIS FIRSTHAND AND THROUGH YOUR LINE OF WORK.

TALK ABOUT THIS IDEA OF THE WAGES NOT REALLY BEING ENOUGH TO GET PEOPLE GOING.

>>IT'S EXTREME AND IT'S ONLY GETTING WORSE.

RIGHT NOW IF YOU'RE MAKING MINIMUM WAGE, IT'S GOING TO TAKE YOU 115 HOURS OF WORK PER WEEK TO AFFORD A ONE BEDROOM APARTMENT.

AND THAT STATISTIC IS ABOUT THREE MONTHS OLD.

WITH THE AVERAGE TWO-BEDROOM NOW COSTING $1,900 A MONTH, WE ARE TOTALLY JUST PUSHING PEOPLE OUT OF THE MARKET.

AND THAT'S NOT INCLUDING FIRST MONTH'S RENT, LAST MONTH'S RENT, DEPOSIT.

WE CONTINUE TO HAVE THIS WHOLE SUBSET OF PEOPLE THAT LITERALLY CANNOT GET HOUSING.

SO WHAT HAPPENS?

THEY GO TO HOTELS, WHICH ARE NO LONGER INEXPENSIVE EITHER.

THEY HAVE TO LIVE WITH FAMILY OR FRIENDS, OR THEY END UP LIVING IN THEIR CAR.

THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE TO START LEAVING THE COMMUNITY, WHICH ALSO LEADS US TO A JOB MARKET ISSUE.

IF WE WANT SUCCESSFUL COMPANIES TO COME TO CENTRAL FLORIDA, WE BETTER FIX THIS HOUSING PROCESS TODAY.

>>HANK, WHAT DO YOU THINK THE SOLUTIONS TO THIS ARE?

HOW DO YOU WALK THAT TIGHT ROPE WHEN IT COMES TO ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, IMPROVING THE LOT OF A COMMUNITY, BUT WITHOUT PRICING PEOPLE OUT?

>>THE SOLUTIONS FOR ME ARE MORE AROUND FINDING THE WAGES THAT ARE GOING, THE COMPETITIVE WAGES THAT ARE GOING TO KEEP PEOPLE HERE BECAUSE, AND THE WORD I USED BEFORE SYSTEMATICALLY SYSTEMIC- >>SYSTEMIC, YEAH.

>>THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR GENERATIONS.

WE CAN GO BACK TO 40 ACRES AND A MULE, WHICH MAY HAVE BEEN THE FIRST PIECE OF GENTRIFICATION, IF YOU WILL.

IT GOES BACK FOR ME ALSO TO STUDYING ABOUT CENTRAL PARK IN NEW YORK CITY AND FINDING OUT THAT THERE WAS AN AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY THAT WAS LIVING IN CENTRAL PARK AT THAT TIME, SENECA VILLAGE.

THOSE FOLKS WERE JUST BY IMMINENT DOMAIN UP AND MOVED OUT WITHOUT GIVING THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE REIMBURSED OR MOVED WITH WHAT THEY HAVE AS OPPOSED TO, OH, RIGHT NOW YOU HAVE TO GO AND YOU HAVE TO START ALL OVER AGAIN, RATHER THAN TAKING WITH YOU WHAT YOU HAVE.

TO ME, THE BIGGEST SOLUTION IS AROUND INCOME AND INCOME INEQUALITY.

THE AGGREGATE HOUSEHOLD WEALTH FOR WHITES IN THIS COUNTRY IS ALMOST 17 TIMES GREATER THAN THE AGGREGATE HOUSEHOLD WEALTH FOR BLACK AMERICANS IN THIS COUNTRY.

THAT IS SOMETHING THAT HAS GENERATIONAL IMPACT, NOT ONLY GENERATIONAL GOING BACK HUNDREDS OF YEARS, BUT GENERATIONAL IMPACT TODAY.

>>CATHERINE, AFFORDABLE HOUSING, YOU ARE WORKING TO TRY TO BRING MORE ATTAINABLE BECAUSE WHEN I HEAR AFFORDABLE HOUSING, I ALWAYS CHUCKLE A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE I THINK TO MYSELF, AFFORDABLE FOR WHO?

WHO ARE YOU MAKING IT AFFORDABLE FOR?

YOU ALL ARE WORKING TO TRY TO MAKE IT ATTAINABLE AND AFFORDABLE.

>>WE ARE.

THE FACE OF WHO NEEDS AFFORDABLE HOUSING HAS SHIFTED.

WE NOW HAVE PUBLIC SCHOOL TEACHERS THAT QUALIFY FOR A HABITAT FOR HUMANITY HOME.

THAT SEEMS WHEN I SAY THAT, SO STRIKING TO SO MANY PEOPLE.

NINE OUT OF 10 OF OUR ESSENTIAL WORKERS HERE IN CENTRAL FLORIDA NEED A HOME THAT THEY CANNOT AFFORD.

THEY CANNOT AFFORD A ONE BEDROOM APARTMENT.

THAT'S A PROBLEM.

SO HABITAT FOR HUMANITY IS TRYING TO BUILD AS MANY HOMES AS WE POSSIBLY CAN.

WE ARE A HOME OWNERSHIP MODEL AND 90% OF THOSE PEOPLE WE SERVE ARE PEOPLE OF COLOR.

ONE OF THE BIGGEST ISSUES AND HURDLES THAT MANY PEOPLE OF COLOR FACE IS ACCESS TO CREDIT AND THE PREDOMINANT ISSUES THAT MANY OF THEM HAVE HAD WITH HEALTH INSURANCE.

SO THEIR DEBT TO INCOME RATIO, BECAUSE THEY HAVE MEDICAL DEBT THROWS THEM OUT OF THE ABILITY TO GO AND PURCHASE A HOME THROUGH THE OPEN MARKET.

SO WHEN WE TALK SYSTEMIC AND GENERATIONAL, WE ALSO TALK, IT'S VERY NUANCED AND GRANULAR AND IT'S NOT JUST ONE THING THAT'S GOING TO RESOLVE THE PROBLEM.

>>YEAH.

I SEE YOU NODDING THERE, HANK.

>>YEAH, BECAUSE IT ISN'T JUST ONE THING.

THERE IS WHETHER IT'S EDUCATION, WHETHER IT'S CHILDCARE, WHETHER IT'S CARING FOR THE ELDERLY, WHETHER IT'S BEING ABLE TO KEEP ONE'S CREDIT SCORE UP.

THERE ARE MULTIFACTORS THAT ARE GOING TO GO INTO SOMEONE BEING ABLE TO STAY IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD.

UNFORTUNATELY, THOSE WHO ARE IN POSITIONS TO DEVELOP THESE AREAS, OFTENTIMES DON'T HAVE THOSE FOLKS IN MIND.

AND WHEN THEY DON'T HAVE THOSE FOLKS IN MIND, THAT'S WHAT PUSHES FOLKS OUT.

AND AS I SAID JUST A BIT AGO, WE WANT, AND I'M PUTTING MYSELF IN THE COLLECTIVE WE, WE WANT PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO BE IN A COMMUNITY, WHO ARE GOING TO HELP TO BUILD UP THAT COMMUNITY, WHO ARE GOING TO WANT TO RAISE THEIR CHILDREN IN THAT COMMUNITY, AND WHOSE CHILDREN WANT TO COME BACK TO THAT COMMUNITY, BECAUSE WHETHER IT BE SCHOOLS, SAFETY, RECREATION, OPEN GREEN SPACE.

BUT PEOPLE ARE NOT BEING ABLE TO HAVE THAT OPPORTUNITY BECAUSE WHETHER IT'S, YOUR EXAMPLE OF HEALTHCARE AND PUSHING ONE'S DEBT TO INCOME LIMIT OUT OF WHACK, THERE ARE MULTIPLE FACTORS.

I THINK I HIT THE MOST IMPORTANT ONE, WHICH IS INCOME.

BUT THERE ARE MULTIPLE FACTORS THAT ARE GOING TO GO INTO SOLVING... AND I DON'T KNOW IF SOLVING IS THE RIGHT WAY TO PHRASE IT, TO GOING INTO CHANGING THE DIRECTION OF THE FLYWHEEL TAKES A LOT OF ENERGY TO CHANGE THAT DIRECTION, IF YOU WILL.

>>MITCHELL, HANK REFERRED THAT TO THE PEOPLE THAT ARE IN A POSITION TO DO THE DEVELOPMENT.

AND THAT SORT OF BRINGS ME ONTO THE CONSTRUCTION SIDE OF THINGS, OF COURSE, CATHERINE IS IN THAT AREA TOO, BUT I WONDER HOW WE INCENTIVIZE DEVELOPERS TO BUILD AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

>>IN ORANGE COUNTY, REALLY, SINCE MAYOR DEMINGS CAME IN OFFICE, WE'VE REALLY DEVELOPED A LOT OF EMPHASIS AND PRIORITY ON TACKLING NOT ONLY THIS AFFORDABLE PROBLEM AND CRISIS, BUT HOW DO WE JUMPSTART THE CONSTRUCTION OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING?

SO WE CAME UP WITH A 10-YEAR ACTION PLAN CALLED THE HOUSING FOR ALL.

ONE OF THE MAJOR RECOMMENDATIONS WAS TO CREATE A LOCAL HOUSING TRUST FUND.

THIS IS THE THIRD YEAR IN THE TRUST FUND.

WE HAVE ABOUT $33 MILLION.

WE'VE BEEN PUTTING THAT ON THE STREET IN THROUGH REQUESTS FOR PROPOSALS FOR DEVELOPERS.

WE SELECTED FOUR SUCCESSFUL DEVELOPERS THAT ARE GOING TO CREATE 633 AFFORDABLE RENT RESTRICTED APARTMENTS THROUGHOUT ORANGE COUNTY.

AND WHAT WAS REALLY INSTRUMENTAL IN THIS IS IN YEARS PAST, WE WOULD DO THESE TYPE OF PROPOSALS.

WE MAYBE WOULD BE LUCKY TO GET ONE PROJECT A YEAR AND HERE WE'VE GOT FOUR.

>>HERE'S WHERE IT'S MULTILAYERED, BECAUSE MY COLLEAGUE HERE, FRIEND, INDICATES THAT THERE'S FOUR PROPOSALS.

NOW, I DON'T KNOW IF THOSE FOUR PROPOSALS THAT WERE GIVEN ALL WENT TO WHITE COMPANIES, OR DID THEY GO TO COMPANIES OF COLOR, OR EVEN MORE IMPORTANTLY, DID THEY GO TO COMPANIES HEADED BY WOMEN?

THAT'S WHERE THE INVESTMENT, IF YOU WILL, IN MY EXPERIENCE COMES IN, BECAUSE NOW FOLKS ARE NOT ONLY SEEING PEOPLE WHO LOOK LIKE THEM, BUT THEY ALSO KNOW THE PERSON IN CHARGE LOOKS LIKE THEM AS WELL.

AND THAT'S A BIG THING IN HELPING A COMMUNITY THRIVE AND HELPING A COMMUNITY BE ABLE TO SAY, YEAH, I CAN OWN THIS.

I DON'T KNOW WHO THOSE FOUR FOLKS WERE, BUT WHEN I HEAR OF LARGE SUMS OF MONEY BEING DISTRIBUTED, I ALWAYS WANT TO KNOW WHO ARE THOSE DEVELOPERS?

ARE THEY PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO BE INVESTED IN THE COMMUNITY OR JUST COME IN, DO THE JOB, AND LEAVE AND HOPE FOR THE BEST?

>>DESIREE, THAT PROBABLY CAUSED SOME OF THE RUB WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT GENTRIFICATION.

I'M ASSUMING PEOPLE YOU HEAR FROM IN THE COMMUNITY THEY'LL SAY PROBABLY VERY BOLDLY HERE COMES THE WHITE MAN, COME IN AND TAKE OVER OUR NEIGHBORHOOD.

>>RIGHT.

AND I THINK WE STARTED THIS CONVERSATION WITH TALKING ABOUT WEALTH, RIGHT, WHICH IS DIFFERENT FROM INCOME.

YOU CAN MAKE A REASONABLE INCOME NOW, BUT IF A PANDEMIC HITS AND YOU DON'T HAVE THE FAMILY WEALTH AND SAVINGS AND ALL OF THAT BEHIND YOU, YOU'RE STILL IN A CRISIS.

SO WHEN IT COMES TO WHO GETS TO DEVELOP THESE PROJECTS, OF COURSE, WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT BUILDING UP WEALTH IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY, WE WANT TO SEE BLACK DEVELOPERS DOING IT.

BUT THERE'S ALSO THE CONCEPT OF WHO'S LIVING IN THESE UNITS, RIGHT?

PEOPLE WHO ARE STRUGGLING, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE COUNTY HERE, BUT OF COURSE THE CITY IS ALSO BUILDING OR ATTEMPTING TO BUILD MORE AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

BUT FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE STRUGGLING RIGHT NOW, THOSE UNITS ARE NOT WHAT THEY NEED.

AND TO JUST SORT OF PAINT THE PICTURE OF WHAT PEOPLE ARE GOING THROUGH, ONE OF THE WOMEN THAT WE SPOKE WITH WHO WAS UNFORTUNATELY, EVENTUALLY EVICTED, LIVED IN A TWO BEDROOM APARTMENT ON MERCY DRIVE, WHERE SHE PAID ABOUT $950, WHICH IS FAR LESS THAN MOST OF THE CITY.

BUT THE QUALITY WAS ALSO NOT THERE.

IF ALL OF HER CHILDREN AND HER TOOK A SHOWER IN THE SAME DAY, IT COULD FLOOD HER CLOSET.

THE NAILS KEEPING THE FLOOR BOARDS IN PLACE WOULD POKE UP AND SHE WOULD STEP ON THEM AND GET HURT.

IT WAS A DIFFICULT PLACE TO LIVE, BUT SHE WAS STILL DESPERATE TO TRY TO STAY THERE.

BUT SHE WAS IN A POSITION WHERE, WHEN SHE GOT HER STIMULUS CHECK, HER CAR DIED ON HER.

AND SHE, INSTEAD OF USING ALL OF IT TO TRY TO CATCH UP ON RENT, USED IT TO CATCH UP OR TO BUY A NEW CAR, BECAUSE SHE UNDERSTOOD THAT IF SHE COULD NOT CATCH UP ON HER RENT AND SHE WAS EVICTED, HER CHOICES WOULD BE EITHER SLEEPING ON THE STREET OR SLEEPING IN HER CAR.

TO HER, IT WAS A DECISION THAT SAID, I'D RATHER SPEND THIS RENT MONEY ON A CAR, BECAUSE AT LEAST I'LL HAVE SOME SORT OF A ROOF OVER MY HEAD IN A FEW MONTHS.

SO IT'S A VERY DIFFICULT SITUATION THAT WE'RE DEALING WITH HERE AND MORE AFFORDABLE HOUSING IS INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT.

BUT OF COURSE, WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT UNITS IN THE TERMS OF ADDING HUNDREDS WHEN THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE WHO NEED HOUSING, IT FEELS LIKE A PROBLEM THAT WILL STICK WITH US FOR QUITE SOME TIME.

>>CATHERINE, WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>>YES.

>>JUST YES.

>>AGAIN, IT IS MULTI-PRONGED.

I MEAN, WE'VE GOT MOST PEOPLE WHO ARE ESSENTIAL WORKERS ARE $350 AWAY FROM A CRISIS.

WHEN THEIR CAR BREAKS, WHAT DO YOU DO?

SO THEY'RE ALWAYS IN THIS POSITION OF HAVING TO CHOOSE, DO I FIX MY CAR SO THAT I CAN GET TO WORK, BECAUSE WE'VE GOT A PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION ISSUE, OR DO I FEED MY CHILD OR DO I PAY MY RENT?

BECAUSE WE HAVE SO MANY FOOD INSECURE FAMILIES HERE IN CENTRAL FLORIDA.

IT'S ALL OF THESE WICKED PROBLEMS REALLY COMING TOGETHER.

HOUSING IS SORT OF AT THE CENTER.

WHEN WE TALK GENTRIFICATION, I THINK WE ALSO NEED TO REMEMBER THE ELDERLY WHO ARE IN THE AREAS WHO OWN THEIR HOME THEY HAVE NO MORTGAGE, BUT PROPERTY TAXES ARE INCREASING SO DRAMATICALLY.

THEY CAN NO LONGER AFFORD THEIR HOME AND THEN ARE FORCED MOVE.

WHERE DO THEY GO?

IT IS SO MULTIFACETED AND MULTI-GENERATIONAL, AND ALSO IT IS A SOCIETAL ISSUE BECAUSE OUR COLLEGE GRADUATES CAN NOW NO LONGER AFFORD TO RENT AN APARTMENT IN THE CORE OF ORLANDO UNLESS THEY HAVE AN EXTREMELY AMOUNT, A LARGE AMOUNT OF MONEY OR FOUR ROOMMATES.

>>I JUST SAW AN AD JUST LAST NIGHT, SOMEONE I KNOW WHO GRADUATED FROM UCF LAST YEAR AND SHE'S LOOKING FOR THREE ROOMMATES.

AND I'M LIKE, WELL, YOU JUST GRADUATED FROM, SO.

>>IT'S TRICKY.

I MEAN, WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT PROPERTY TAX THING, MITCHELL?

>>WELL, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CATHERINE POINTS OUT THAT'S REALLY DEVASTATING IS WE WANT PEOPLE WHO OWN THEIR HOME TO STAY IN THEIR HOME AND AGE IN PLACE.

AND WHAT HAPPENS IS THERE'S NOT ENOUGH INCOME TO PAY, NOT JUST FOR THE TAXES, BUT THERE'S NOT ENOUGH INCOME TO PAY TO REPAIR THE HOMES.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'VE BEEN DOING IN ORANGE COUNTY FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS IS HELPING PEOPLE THAT ARE LOW INCOME THAT OWN THEIR HOME RENOVATE THEIR HOME SO THEY CAN STAY AND AGE IN PLACE.

ORANGE COUNTY HAS ACTUALLY PARTNERED WITH HABITAT FOR HUMANITIES TO HELP EXPAND THAT PROGRAM.

SO NOT ONLY ARE WE DOING IT WITH OUR TEAM AND OUR STAFF, BUT WE'VE CONTRACTED WITH HABITAT AS WELL TO PUT A NEW ROOF ON A LOW INCOME PERSON'S HOME, AND THOSE ARE TRADITIONALLY SENIOR CITIZENS THAT CAN'T AFFORD THAT.

THAT'S JUST SOME OF THE WAYS WE'RE TRYING TO COMBAT THAT.

BUT I DID WANT MENTION SOMETHING THAT DESIREE MENTIONED TOO, IS ONE OF THE IMPORTANT THINGS IS WE'RE TRYING TO GENERATE AND BUILD A LOT MORE AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

BUT ACCESS INTO THOSE HOUSING IS A KEY ISSUE BECAUSE A LOT OF THE COMPANIES THAT OWN AND MANAGE REGULAR APARTMENTS AND AFFORDABLE APARTMENTS THEY SCREEN AND TRY TO GET THE BEST OF THE QUALIFIED TENANTS.

SO ONE OF THE THINGS WE CHALLENGED IN THIS LAST RP IS THAT WE WANTED THE DEVELOPERS TO THINK OUT OF THE BOX AND SET ASIDE UNITS TO WHAT WE CALL LOW BARRIER UNITS AND CHANGE YOUR QUALIFICATION CRITERIA TO ALLOW PEOPLE THAT MAY HAVE CREDIT ISSUES, MAY HAVE HAD ONE EVICTION ON THEIR RECORD, MAY HAVE HAD A MINOR ARREST OR FELONY BUT IT WASN'T VIOLENT OR IT WASN'T AS SEX OFFENSE AND OFFER THAT.

SO THE DEVELOPERS ALL SET ASIDE 25% OF THEIR UNITS TO ENTER THIS LOW BARRIER CRITERIA.

SO IT'S SOMETHING NEW THAT WE'RE TRYING TO INCREASE THE ACCESS FOR PEOPLE WHO MIGHT HAVE BEEN EFFECTIVE DURING THE PANDEMIC FOR THESE NEW UNITS THAT...

I'LL END WITH, THEY'RE NOT ONLY GOING TO BE AFFORDABLE TODAY, BUT THESE ARE GOING TO BE AFFORDABLE FOR THE NEXT 50 YEARS.

THERE'S A LOT OF FINANCING AND SOPHISTICATION THAT WENT INTO CREATING THESE UNITS, BUT THEY'RE GOING TO BE HERE FOR A LONG TIME.

>>SOME OF THESE ISSUES IT'S VERY EASY TO THINK ARE INTRACTABLE AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT, RIGHT, TO TRY TO FIND SOLUTIONS TO THEM.

>>IT IS, AND YOU ALL PROVIDED INCREDIBLE INSIGHT.

I AGREE.

I THINK IT'S WONDERFUL THAT THE STAKEHOLDERS ARE WORKING ON THESE PROGRAMS BECAUSE THEY ARE RECOGNIZING THAT THIS IS A PROBLEM THAT'S NOT GOING AWAY QUICKLY.

AND AGAIN, SOMETHING YOU SAID EARLIER, CATHERINE, THIS MATTERS BECAUSE IT IMPACTS ECONOMIC DEVELOP.

IT MATTERS BECAUSE IT IMPACTS WHETHER BUSINESSES WILL WANT TO COME HERE.

>>EXACTLY.

WE TALK SO MUCH IN OUR COMMUNITY ABOUT ECONOMIC DIVERSIFICATION AND DEVELOPMENT.

IT'S JUST A HUGE TOPIC HERE IN CENTRAL FLORIDA, FOR SURE.

WELL, THAT IS ALL THE TIME WE HAVE FOR TONIGHT.

A REALLY IMPORTANT CONVERSATION.

MY THANKS TO DESIREE STENNETT, HANK VAN PUTTEN, CATHERINE STECK MCMANUS, MITCHELL GLASSER, AND MY COLLEAGUE, DARALENE JONES, FROM WFTV.

YOU CAN FIND MUCH MORE OF THIS DISCUSSION ON OUR NEWSNIGHT CONVERSATIONS WEBSITE AT WUCF.ORG/CONVERSATIONS.

UNTIL NEXT TIME, TAKE CARE AND HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.