♪ MUSIC ♪ >>GOOD MORNING AND WELCOME TO GLOBAL PERSPECTIVES.

FROM OUR HOME STUDIOS, I'M DAVID DUMKE.

>>AND I'M KATIE CORONADO.

WELCOME.

>>TODAY, WE ARE JOINED BY OWEN KIRBY.

OWEN HAS SERVED IN A VARIETY OF CAPACITIES IN USA ID, AND THE US STATE DEPARTMENT, WORKED THROUGHOUT THE MIDDLE EAST, CENTRAL ASIA, AND IN FACT, ALL OVER THE GLOBE.

WELCOME TO THE SHOW OWEN.

>>DAVID, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

IT'S A PLEASURE TO BE HERE AND I'D LIKE TO THANK UNIVERSITY OF CENTRAL FLORIDA FOR HAVING ME.

>>OWEN THANK YOU AGAIN FOR BEING WITH US THIS MORNING.

WE'D LIKE TO ASK YOU A FEW THINGS.

OF COURSE, WE'VE GOT A LOT OF QUESTIONS RELATED TO YOUR JOB AND TO YOUR EXPERTISE, BUT HOW DID YOU GET INTO THIS LINE OF WORK?

>>THANKS KATIE.

IT'S A PLEASURE TO MEET YOU.

IT'S PROBABLY A LONG, COMPLICATED STORY.

I'M GOING TO TRY TO GIVE YOU THE READER'S DIGEST VERSION.

I GREW UP IN A FAMILY WITH A MOTHER WHO IS FROM IRELAND, SPENT A LOT OF MY YOUNG YEARS TRAVELING BACK AND FORTH TO VISIT EXTENDED FAMILY THROUGHOUT IRELAND.

AND THEN WHEN I WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL AND THEN COLLEGE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY OF STUDYING IN EUROPE.

AND THAT GAVE ME OBVIOUSLY A PROXIMITY TO THE CONTINENT AND ALSO TO THE MIDDLE EAST WHERE I FIRST GOT MY START IN INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS.

I THINK I WAS A FRESHMAN AT TRINITY COLLEGE IN DUBLIN AND OVER SPRING BREAK, I HOPPED ON A FERRY, A TRAIN, ANOTHER FERRY AND MADE MY WAY TO MOROCCO.

AND THAT WAS THE BEGINNING OF WHAT'S NOW BEEN A 30-SOMETHING YEAR ADVENTURE.

>>SO MUCH OF YOUR WORK HAS BEEN WORKING WITH CIVIL SOCIETY, WORKING WITH GOVERNMENTS, WORKING ON US FOREIGN ASSISTANCE PROGRAMS.

SO I WANT TO ASK YOU THERE'S A LOT OF AMERICANS WHO ARE SKEPTICAL ABOUT THE VALUE OF FOREIGN AID.

WHAT DO YOU SAY TO CYNICS?

>>I MEAN, I THINK THE SITUATION THAT WE'RE FACING HERE IN THE COUNTRY TODAY WITH THE PANDEMIC, AND NOT TO RECOURSE THE SITUATION ON OUR SOUTHERN BORDER EMPHASIZES, IT'S THE FACTS, THE FACT THAT WE NEED TO HAVE PARTNERSHIPS AROUND THE WORLD, WHETHER OR NOT IT'S THE ECONOMIC AND POLITICAL INSTABILITY THAT'S ENCOURAGING OR FORCING PEOPLE TO MIGRATE UP TO OUR SOUTHERN BORDER OR THAT IT'S EXACERBATING COVID-19 AND IT'S SPREAD AND THE VARIATIONS THAT WE'RE SEEING EMERGE FROM IT.

I THINK THESE CALL OUT FOR GLOBAL RESPONSES.

OBVIOUSLY WE DO NOT HAVE THE CAPACITY, THE SKILL, OR THE ABILITY TO MANAGE ON OUR OWN.

SO, IF SOMEONE WERE TO ASK ME, WHAT IS THE VALUE?

I'D JUST LOOK AT THESE CHALLENGES THAT WE'RE FACING TODAY AND THE FACT THAT ALONE, WE ARE NOT ABLE TO MITIGATE THEM.

>>OWEN, WHEN IT COMES TO THE HUMANITARIAN WORK THAT WE KNOW HAS BEEN DONE THROUGH THAT ORGANIZATION, THROUGH THE WORK THAT YOU'VE DONE, WE KNOW THAT THERE IS, WHAT DAVID MENTIONED EARLIER, POTENTIAL PERCEPTION THAT THERE'S ALSO ANOTHER AGENDA.

MAYBE THE PERCEPTION COMES FROM THOSE GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS IN THOSE COUNTRIES OR PEOPLE HESITANT TO GET INVOLVED IN PROJECTS.

HAS THERE BEEN A SITUATION WHERE YOU HAVE WITNESSED INTENT OTHER THAN THE HUMANITARIAN WORK IN THESE COUNTRIES WHERE YOU'VE TRIED TO HELP?

>>I HAVEN'T EXPERIENCED SOME ALTERNATIVE OR ANY DIFFERENT INTENT OTHER THAN WHAT HAS BEEN EXPLAINED BY OUR POLICYMAKERS.

HOWEVER, I UNDERSTAND THE PERCEPTION CHALLENGES THAT WE SOMETIMES FACE.

ONE THING I CAN SAY IS THAT IN, IN NO COUNTRY, IN WHICH I HAVE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY, THE PLEASURE, THE HONOR OF SERVING AND ASSISTING, LOCAL CIVIL SOCIETY ORGANIZATIONS OR GOVERNMENTS, HAVE I EXPERIENCED ANY SORT OF PUSHBACK.

I KNOW THAT SOUNDS PERHAPS A LITTLE EXAGGERATED GIVEN WHAT WE OFTEN SEE REPORTED IN THE NEWS, IN OUR MEDIA.

HOWEVER, ON THE GROUND GLOBALLY, WHETHER OR NOT IT'S IN RESPECT TO HEALTHCARE OR EDUCATION OR HUMANITARIAN ASSISTANCE IN RESPONSE TO A NATURAL DISASTER, AS WE RECENTLY EXPERIENCED IN CENTRAL AMERICA WITH THE TWO GREAT STORMS THAT USAID WAS AT THE FOREFRONT OF ADDRESSING, LOCAL NEEDS ARE GREAT, AND LOCAL PARTNERSHIPS ARE NOT HARD TO BE FOUND.

AND I THINK THIS IS THE REALITY, THE NEEDS ECONOMICALLY ACROSS THE WORLD, PARTICULARLY ARE SUCH THAT THERE ARE VERY, VERY FEW PLACES WHERE THE US GOVERNMENT USAID IN PARTICULAR ARE ACTIVE IN WHICH THERE ISN'T A GROUNDSWELL OF SUPPORT AND GREAT RECEPTION.

>>IS THAT ALSO TRUE OF PROGRAMS THAT PROMOTE DEMOCRACY?

YOU'VE WORKED IN SOME OF THESE PROGRAMS AND PRETTY DIFFICULT PLACES, PARTICULARLY IN THE MIDDLE EAST.

>>THE TERM DEMOCRACY PROMOTION, OF COURSE, CONJURES UP ALL SORTS OF HIDDEN AGENDAS, STRATEGIC, POLITICAL, ET CETERA.I PREFER TO USE THE TERM DEMOCRACY SUPPORT.

AND WITHIN THAT CONTEXT OF SUPPORTING, I THINK THERE ARE VERY FEW PLACES AROUND THE WORLD WHERE THERE AREN'T DEMOCRACY AND GOVERNANCE PROGRAMS THAT WE AREN'T SUPPORTING LOCAL DEMANDS, LOCAL NEEDS, FOR ASSISTANCE.

SO I KNOW, PARTICULARLY IN THE AFTERMATH OF THE INVASION, THE OCCUPATION OF IRAQ, AND AFGHANISTAN, THAT DEMOCRACY SUPPORT AND SOME OF STRATEGIC MILITARY POLITICAL OBJECTIVES HAVE BECOME INTERTWINED OR CONFUSED AND CONFLATED.

BUT WHEREVER YOU LOOK TODAY, WHETHER IT'S HONG KONG, WHETHER IT'S WESTERN PROVINCES OF CHINA AND MYANMAR OR FORMERLY BURMA, WE ARE SEEING GREAT DEMAND, GREAT CRIES FOR THINGS THAT WE TAKE FOR GRANTED HERE, FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION, FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION, INDEPENDENT MEDIA.

SO THERE'S NO LACKING OF DEMANDING ACROSS THE WORLD FOR THESE THINGS, WHETHER OR NOT WE SHOULD BE PROMOTING AS OPPOSED TO SUPPORTING AND ENCOURAGING.

I THINK SOME OF THIS IS JUST CAUGHT UP IN SEMANTICS.

>>HOW DO YOU GET PUBLIC SUPPORT IN SOME OF THESE COUNTRIES WHERE PERCEPTION MAY BE AN ISSUE, HOW DO YOU GET THAT COMMUNITY INVOLVED OR THE PEOPLE WHO YOU NEED INVOLVED TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN, TO MAKE THESE PROJECTS HAPPEN?

>>YEAH, THIS IS A GREAT QUESTION.

THERE'S NO MADE IN AMERICA SOLUTION WHETHER OR NOT IT'S SPORT, LOCAL EDUCATION OR POLITICAL DEVELOPMENT OR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT NEEDS.

THE SOLUTIONS, THE RESPONSES HAVE TO BE RESPONSIVE IN FACT, TO THE LOCAL CONTEXT, TO LOCAL NEEDS.

WE CAN'T SIT IN THIS SORT OF A FISHBOWL IN WASHINGTON DC OR ELSEWHERE AND DETERMINE WHAT IT IS THAT A COMMUNITY OR GOVERNMENT IN BURKINA FASO OR ME-SHARE, OR ANYWHERE IN WEST AFRICA OR ASIA OR CENTRAL EUROPE THAT THEY REQUIRE, OR THAT THEY NEED.

WE HAVE TO DO DUE DILIGENCE ON THE GROUND TO ENSURE THAT OUR ASSISTANCE EFFORTS ARE CLEARLY DEFINED BY THE LOCAL CONTEXT, THE LOCAL NEEDS, THE LOCAL CAPACITY, AND THE LOCAL AIMS AND OBJECTIVES.

>>HAVE YOU OFTEN FOUND THAT SOME LEADERS, AND SOME VOICES IN WASHINGTON EXPECT TOO MUCH FROM US FOREIGN ASSISTANCE, THEY EXPECT CHANGE THAT ISN'T REALISTIC BASED ON THE FACTS ON THE GROUND?

>>WE'RE A COUNTRY IN A RUSH.

WE LIKE INSTANT GRATIFICATION.

WE'RE USED TO SOLVING PROBLEMS BY PUTTING OUR MANPOWER AND OUR RESOURCES AND OUR INGENUITY TO THE CHALLENGE AND EXPECTING IMMEDIATE RETURNS.

WE HAVE GREAT EXPERIENCE IN OUR COUNTRY AND WE'VE HAD GREAT EXPERIENCE IN OUR HISTORY WHERE THE COMBINED EFFORTS IN WILLPOWER AND RESOURCES, THE UNITED STATES HAVE ACCOMPLISHED TREMENDOUS THINGS IN A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME.

THE WORLD IS A COMPLICATED PLACE, HOWEVER, AND NOT EVERYONE LIVES, FUNCTIONS, AT OUR SPEED.

SO WE HAVE TO RECOGNIZE THAT SOME OF THE OBJECTIVES THAT WE'RE TRYING TO SUPPORT FOR THE SAKE OF STABILITY AND GLOBAL PROSPERITY MAY TAKE TIME AND YOU CAN'T PROJECTIZE SOME OF THE SERIOUS CHALLENGES THAT WE HAVE TODAY.

THE PANDEMIC, COVID-19 IS JUST A GREAT EXAMPLE OF THIS.

WE HAVE TO BE VERY STRATEGIC AND WE HAVE TO COMMIT TO THE LONG-TERM.

THIS IS JUST ONE OF THE CHALLENGES WITH FOREIGN ASSISTANCE, GIVEN THAT OUR FOREIGN ASSISTANCE DOLLARS ARE TIED TO BUDGETARY AND CONGRESSIONAL CYCLES AND DECISION-MAKING PROCESSES HERE IN THE UNITED STATES THAT MAY NOT COMPORT OR COMPLY WITH TIMEFRAMES ABROAD.

>>WHEN YOU SPOKE ABOUT LONG-TERM PROJECTS AND BEING PATIENT TO SEE THOSE RESULTS IN SOME OF THESE COUNTRIES, HAVE YOU SEEN SOME POSITIVE RESULTS WITH THAT IN MIND, WHERE YOU'VE HAD TO WORK YEARS AT SOMETHING AND THEN RECEIVED POSITIVE RESULTS OR AN OUTCOME BASED ON THAT PATIENCE AND THE HARD WORK?

>>I THINK EUROPE'S A GREAT EXAMPLE, EASTERN EUROPE IN PARTICULAR, AFTER THE COLLAPSE OF THE SOVIET UNION, OF COURSE, ONE COULD ARGUE THAT THEY WERE COMING FROM A DIFFERENT DEPARTURE POINT AND THAT THERE MAY HAVE BEEN SOME PREEXISTING HISTORY OF DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTIONS AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, BUT CLEARLY THE STABILITY AND THE PROSPERITY THAT WE HAVE SEEN, RELATIVELY SPEAKING IN EUROPE OVER THE PAST 25 YEARS, SPEAKS TO THE SUCCESS OF OUR ASSISTANCE EFFORTS AND OUR PARTNERSHIPS, IF WE ARE COMMITTED TO THE LONGTERM AND WE'RE FOCUSED, AND WE STAYED THE COURSE.

IN OUR OWN HEMISPHERE, OF COURSE, I MENTIONED EARLIER THAT WE WERE LOOKING AT CHALLENGES ON OUR SOUTHERN BORDER, WE'RE LOOKING AT MIGRATION FLOWS UP THE... OF CENTRAL AMERICA.

I HAD THE PLEASURE OF TRAVELING TO COLUMBIA TWO YEARS AGO, WHERE WE HAVE A TREMENDOUS PARTNERSHIP.

AND THE COLOMBIAN GOVERNMENT HAS OVERCOME TREMENDOUS OBSTACLES AND CHALLENGES IN IMPLEMENTING A PEACE ACCORD THAT IS NOW I BELIEVE INTO ITS FOURTH YEAR.

THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF WHERE WE CAN HELP LOCAL GOVERNMENTS, LOCAL PEOPLE ACHIEVE THEIR AIMS IF WE ARE COMMITTED TO THE LONG-TERM.

WHAT COLUMBIA HAS BEEN DEALING WITH THE LAST FOUR YEARS IS BASICALLY THE RESULT OF ACTUALLY, CENTURIES, 50 YEARS OF CIVIL WAR ON TOP OF CENTURIES OF ALIENATION OF THE COUNTRYSIDE FROM THE CAPITAL AND THE MAJOR POPULATION CENTERS.

SO THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT YOU'RE GOING TO REVERSE IN A THREE OR FOUR YEAR PROJECT CYCLE.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT MAY TAKE IN FACT GENERATIONS, BUT GIVEN THE SECURITY CONCERNS THAT WE HAVE HERE IN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE, GIVEN THE THREATS OF NARCO TRAFFICKING AND OTHER SOURCES OF INSTABILITY THAT HAVE COME OUT OF THAT CONTEXT, I THINK IT'S EASY TO ARGUE THAT IT'S WORTH STAYING THE COURSE.

>>OWEN AND WE'VE HEARD A NUMBER OF HIGH RANKING GENERALS OVER THE YEARS FROM THE US SAY THAT MORE MONEY NEEDS TO BE SPENT ON FOREIGN POLICY AND FOREIGN ASSISTANCE, SO WE DON'T HAVE TO SPEND MORE MONEY ON DEFENSE.

ARE WE SPENDING ENOUGH MONEY RIGHT NOW?

AND IS THE MONEY BEING SPENT WELL?

>>I CAN'T GIVE IT A DOLLAR FIGURE.

THE REALITY IS WHATEVER THE PERCEPTION THAT THERE MAY BE OUT THERE IN TERMS OF THE AMOUNT THAT'S ACTUALLY GOING TO FOREIGN ASSISTANCE.

IT IS AN ESTIMATED 1% OF OUR FEDERAL BUDGET, IT IS ROUGHLY 5% OF DOD'S BUDGET.

WE ARE NOT IN TERMS OF OUR GDP, OUR FOREIGN ASSISTANCE LEVELS AREN'T, WHILE IN TOTAL, THEY MAY SURPASS IN ANY COUNTRY IN EUROPE AND MAYBE THE COMBINED COUNTRIES OF EUROPE, BUT AS A PERCENTAGE OF GDP ARE IN THE DOLLARS WE INVEST IN FOREIGN ASSISTANCE EACH YEAR ARE NOT AS GREAT AS A NUMBER OF COUNTRIES IN NORTHERN EUROPE.

>>YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.

THERE'VE BEEN A NUMBER OF HIGH-RANKING OFFICIALS IN DOD.

ROBERT GATES IS ONE, HIS RECENT BOOK SPENDS A LOT OF TIME TALKING ABOUT WHAT HE BELIEVES HAS BEEN THE WEAKENING OR DIMINISHING OF OUR SOFT POWER, THE AMOUNT OF RESOURCES AND EFFORT THAT WE HAVE PUT INTO WHAT IT IS THAT MAKES AMERICA GREAT, THIS SORT OF THE ENCOURAGEMENT AND SUPPORT OF FREE MARKETS, OUR IDEALS OF FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION, FREE MEDIA, THINGS THAT BACK IN THE 50'S, 60'S, 70'S, PLAYED A TREMENDOUS ROLE IN OVERCOMING WHAT WE WERE FACING WITH RESPECT TO THE SOVIET UNION, OUR IDEALS.

AND OUR IDEALS AREN'T SOMETHING, OF COURSE THAT CAN BE SERVED UP THROUGH THE BARREL OF A GUN, BUT IN FACT ARE SOMETHING THAT NEED TO BE SPREAD AND ENCOURAGED AND AMPLIFIED.

SOMEONE ELSE RECENTLY, ANOTHER FORMER SECRETARY OF DEFENSE, GENERAL MATTIS, I BELIEVE HE TOLD CONGRESS WHEN THERE WAS A THREAT, THAT THERE WAS GOING TO BE A 30% CUT OR RESCISSION IN FOREIGN ASSISTANCE.THAT HE WOULD NEED MORE BULLETS FOR HIS MEN.

>>OWEN, YOU MENTIONED EARLIER ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF PREPARING TO WORK WITH CERTAIN COUNTRIES AND HOW YOU GATHER THE INFORMATION TO BE ABLE TO WORK WITH THOSE COMMUNITIES, AND YOU ALSO MENTIONED THE IMPORTANCE OF FREEDOM OF SPEECH, AND PRESS, AND MEDIA SEVERAL TIMES, HOW DO YOU PREPARE TO WORK WITH THE PLACES WITH THOSE LIMITATIONS, KNOWING THAT THOSE WILL BE MAJOR CHALLENGES BECAUSE THEY'RE COMING FROM A DIFFERENT IDEOLOGY.

>>AGAIN, AS WITH OUR HUMANITARIAN ASSISTANCE, WHATEVER WE DO, ANY IDEAS WE START DEVELOPING IN THE ARENA OF DEMOCRACY AND GOVERNANCE, MUST BE TAILORED TO THE LOCAL CONTEXT, WHICH ALSO MEANS LOCAL CAPACITY.

AGAIN, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THERE IS A COUNTRY IN THE WORLD TODAY IN WHICH CITIZENS AREN'T LOOKING FOR A BETTER QUALITY OF LIFE.

IT MAY NOT BE ARTICULATED AS DEMOCRACY, MAY NOT BE ARTICULATED AS REPRESENTATIVE GOVERNMENT, BUT THERE ISN'T A COUNTRY, AND THERE ISN'T PEOPLE THAT I'M AWARE OF, LOOKING OUT ACROSS THE GLOBE TODAY THAT DOES NOT WANT IMPROVEMENT IN QUALITY OF LIFE, BETTER ACCESS TO JOBS, BETTER ACCESS TO HEALTHCARE AND EDUCATION, THINGS THAT WE ALL KNOW THAT COME FROM A PARTICIPATORY OR MORE PARTICIPATORY SYSTEM.

SO WHEN IT COMES TO SUPPORTING A NASCENT OR EMERGING DEMOCRATIC OR CIVIL SOCIETY, ACTORS, AND ELSEWHERE IN THE WORLD, THERE'S NO MADE IN AMERICA SOLUTION.

THERE'S NOTHING THAT WE NECESSARILY HAVE TO EXPORT FROM HERE.

WE JUST NEED TO BE ABLE TO TAILOR OUR RESPONSES TO THE LOCAL CONTEXT AND THE LOCAL CONTEXT YOU WILL FIND ANYWHERE INCLUDES EDUCATED PEOPLE, PEOPLE WHO ARE YOUNG PEOPLE IN PARTICULAR, WHO ARE WELL AWARE OF DEVELOPMENTS AROUND THE WORLD, WHO KNOW WHAT IT IS THEY WANT, THEY JUST NEED TO FIND A WAY TO ARTICULATE IT BETTER AND TO CHANNEL THEIR ENERGIES IN A PRODUCTIVE MANNER TO ACHIEVE THEIR AIMS.

>>DO YOU HAVE ANY EXAMPLES OF WHERE YOU HAVE BEEN ABLE TO REACH SUCCESSFUL CONVERSATIONS WITHOUT IMPOSING, OF COURSE, BUT WITH A LOT OF LEARNING, DO YOU HAVE ANY EXAMPLES OF ANYTHING PARTICULAR THAT YOU CAN RECALL?

>>YOU KNOW, IF YOU LOOK OUTSIDE THE UNITED STATES, PARTICULARLY IN THE DEVELOPING WORLD, THE BULK OF THE POPULATION, PARTICULARLY IN SUB-SAHARAN AFRICA, THE MIDDLE EAST, UPWARDS OF 70% OF THE POPULATION IN THESE REGIONS ARE UNDER THE AGE OF 35.

SO UNLESS YOU ARE ENGAGING WITH YOUTH, WOMEN AND YOUNG MEN, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A VERY HARD TIME ACHIEVING ANYTHING POSITIVE.

YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A HARD TIME FINDING LOCAL PARTNERS WHO HAVE THE CAPACITY AND THE SORT OF THE STRATEGIC GAMES THAT WE'RE LOOKING TO SUPPORT OR WOULD LIKE TO SUPPORT HERE IN THE UNITED STATES.

I DON'T THINK I CAN THINK OF A SINGLE COUNTRY, WHICH USAID IS ACTIVE IN WHICH YOUTH DON'T MAKE UP A CORE COMPONENT OF OUR LOCAL PARTNERSHIPS OR PROGRAMS.

AND NIGERIA IS A GOOD EXAMPLE IN PARTICULAR DURING THE PANDEMIC WHERE USAID IS SUPPORTING YOUTH EFFORTS, BOTH TO MITIGATE SOME OF THE EFFECTS OF COVID HEALTH-WISE, BUT ALSO TO COMMUNICATE BEST PRACTICES OUT IN THE COMMUNITY AND TO ENGAGE THE COMMUNITY IN MITIGATING SOME OF THE, THE IMPACTS.

I LOOK AT BOSNIA, HERZEGOVINA IN BOSNIA.

WE HAVE A GENERATION NOW THAT HAS COME OF AGE SINCE THE DAYTON ACCORDS THAT PUT AN END TO THE CIVIL CONFLICT THERE, BACK IN THE 1990S, WITHOUT THE ENGAGEMENT AND PARTICIPATION OF BOSNIAN YOUTH, WHETHER OR NOT THEY'RE FROM THE SERB COMMUNITY, THE BOZNIAK COMMUNITY, OR THE CROATIAN COMMUNITY.

I THINK THAT THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN A HARD TIME MAINTAINING THE LEVEL OF STABILITY THAT WE'VE SEEN OVER THE PAST.

WHAT IS IT?

25, 26 YEARS NOW, SINCE DAYTON.

ARMENIA, WHERE THERE'S A SOFT REVOLUTION TWO YEARS AGO, DEMOCRATIC PARTY CAME INTO POWER.

I WOULD SAY THAT THEY WERE PROPELLED ON THE BACK OF YOUTH, YOUTH THAT WANTED TO TURN THEIR BACK ON SORT OF A RUSSIAN OLIGARCHIC-INFLUENCED GOVERNMENT IN WHICH OPPORTUNITY, ECONOMIC OR OTHERWISE WAS JUST NOT MADE AVAILABLE TO THEM.

SO I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S SPECIFIC ENOUGH, BUT AGAIN, GIVEN THE DEMOGRAPHICS AND MOST OF THE DEVELOPING WORLD YOUTH ARE JUST A KEY CORE COMPONENT OF WHAT IT IS.

ANYTHING THAT USAID AND FOREIGN ASSISTANCE IS TRYING TO ACHIEVE.

>>REACHING THE YOUTH REQUIRES DIFFERENT TOOLS THAN REACHING THE TRADITIONAL LEVERS OF A FOREIGN GOVERNMENT OR TRADITIONAL WAYS OF DOING THINGS.

SO MY QUESTION IS, NOT JUST ABOUT THE YOUTH, BUT IN GENERAL.

DOES THE US GOVERNMENT HAVE THE TOOLS IT NEEDS TO RESPOND TO CRISIS IN A RAPID BASIS OR ARE OUR TOOLS OUTDATED?

I KNOW YOU'VE WORKED ON SOME PROGRAMS LIKE MEPI THAT WERE CREATED SPECIFICALLY TO RESPOND IN A MORE TIMELY FASHION.

>>NO, I THINK SOME OF THE CHALLENGES THAT WE'RE SEEING TODAY, AND AGAIN, I DON'T WANT TO KEEP ON COMING BACK TO THE PANDEMIC, BUT YOU KNOW, THE PANDEMIC AND THE SPREAD OF COVID OVER SUCH A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME GLOBALLY IS A GOOD EXAMPLE, BUT SO IS A SPREAD OF EXTREMISM, YOU HAD THE DEMISE OF THE ISLAMIC STATE IN IRAQ AND SYRIA, BUT THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU HAVE THE ISLAMIC STATE IN THE ARABIAN PENINSULA AND THE ISLAMIC STATE IN THE MOD GRAB, THE ISLAMIC STATE IN WEST AFRICA.

YOU SEE THE SPREAD OF DISINFORMATION, EMANATING OUT OF CHINA AND RUSSIA IN PARTICULAR AIMED AT DESTABILIZING ALLIED GOVERNMENTS OF OUR OWN.

THESE ARE ALL GLOBAL THREATS, THEY'RE TRANSNATIONAL THREATS AND CHALLENGES.

THERE ARE ONES THAT DON'T RESPECT BORDERS OR FRONTIERS.

THEY'RE ONES THAT ARE GOING TO DEMAND THAT WE COME UP WITH SOME NEW CREATIVE RESPONSES FOR.

NO LONGER WILL THIS SORT OF STANDALONE COUNTRY, SPECIFIC INTERVENTIONS AND PROGRAMS THAT WE'VE HAD IN THE PAST, WILL THEY BE SUFFICIENT.

WE CAN'T LOOK AT A COUNTRY LIKE NIGERIA AND THINK THAT WE CAN DEAL WITH THE THREAT OF BOKO-HARAM OR ISIS WEST AFRICA, OR EVEN COVID-19 IN ISOLATION THERE WHEN THESE CHALLENGES, THESE THREATS LIKE NARCO TERRORISM AND NARCO TRAFFICKING IN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE, WHEN THE THREATS DON'T OBSERVE SOVEREIGNTY.

SO, A LONG-TERM DEVELOPMENT PROGRAM, THAT'S COUNTRY-SPECIFIC IS NOT GOING TO BE SUFFICIENT FOR THESE CHALLENGES TODAY.

WE NEED GLOBAL STRATEGIES.

WE NEED INTERCONNECTED PROGRAMS.

AND GOING BACK TO, I THINK THE VERY FIRST QUESTION, WE NEED PARTNERSHIPS.

WE NEED PARTNERSHIPS WITH OUR ALLIES ACROSS THE WORLD, ALLIES AND PARTNERS AND SOME OF THEM MAY BE EVEN ADVERSARIES ON SOME ISSUES WHO RECOGNIZED THE TRANSCENDENT THREATS OF NUCLEAR PROLIFERATION, PANDEMICS, NARCO TRAFFICKING, AND THE LIKE.

THINGS THAT WE CAN'T MANAGE ALL ON OUR OWN, CHALLENGES THAT THREATEN THE STABILITY, ECONOMIC PROSPERITY, EVERYWHERE.

>>YOU MENTIONED STRATEGIC IMPORTANCE IN ALL OF THIS.

WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE PANDEMIC AND THE CHANGES THAT HAVE HAPPENED, WHAT HAVE BEEN SOME OF THE OPPORTUNITIES FOR VIRTUAL OUTREACH?

>>WE'VE LEARNED A LOT THIS PAST YEAR WITH RESPECT TO FOREIGN ASSISTANCE, I THINK REMOTE WORK IS LIKELY TO HAVE SOME LONG-TERM IMPACTS ON HOW WE DO BUSINESS HERE IN THE UNITED STATES.

I THINK IT ALSO WILL HAVE IMPACTS ON HOW WE PROVIDE FOREIGN ASSISTANCE.

AND THE NUMBER ONE IMPACT WILL BE ON OVERHEAD.

DO WE NEED A SIGNIFICANT OVERHEAD TO OPERATE?

I WITNESSED AND EXPERIENCED THIS PAST YEAR STAFF HAVING TO COME BACK FROM SOME COUNTRIES WHICH HAD HIGH INFECTION RATES AND OPERATING PROGRAMS FROM THE MIDWEST OR THE WEST COAST WITHOUT ANY DROP-OFF IN TEMPO.

SO I THINK WE'RE GOING TO SEE A LOT OF IMPACTS FROM HOW WE'VE HAD TO OPERATE THIS PAST YEAR.

I THINK THEY'RE GOING TO BE POSITIVE IMPACTS AT THE END OF THE DAY.

I THINK AT A VERY BASIC LEVEL, WE PROBABLY DON'T NEED TO HAVE SIGNIFICANT OVERHEAD IN THE FIELD.

NOW, OF COURSE, NOTHING REPLACES, PARTICULARLY IN ORAL CULTURES, FACE-TO-FACE RELATIONSHIPS, WHICH OF COURSE ARE CRITICAL FOR DEVELOPING TRUST AND GETTING A REAL SENSE OF WHAT THE NEEDS ARE ON THE GROUND, BUT DO WE NEED THE LARGE PRESENCE THAT IS COSTLY, PARTICULARLY IN PLACES WHERE THERE'S GREAT FRAGILITY AND INSTABILITY AND THREATS TO STAFF?

I THINK WE'VE LEARNED A LOT THIS PAST YEAR, WE'RE STILL REVIEWING, WE'RE STILL LOOKING AT THE LESSONS LEARNED, BUT I THINK THAT WE'LL SEE SOME CHANGES IN OUR GLOBAL POSTURE, HOW WE THINK WE NEED TO OPERATE MOVING FORWARD.

BUT I THINK AGAIN, THERE'S GOING TO BE CHALLENGES.

WE'VE SEEN SOME OF THE BAD GUYS OUT THERE TAKING ADVANTAGE OF SOME OF THE INCREASED VULNERABILITIES THAT COVID HAS CREATED ECONOMICALLY AND POLITICALLY TO EXTEND THEIR INFLUENCE INTO UNDERMINE LOCAL INSTITUTIONS AROUND THE WORLD, TO OUR DISADVANTAGE, TO THE DETRIMENT OF YOUR ATLANTIC, OR RELATIONS AND TIES.

BUT ULTIMATELY THERE ARE GOING TO BE POSITIVES THAT COME OUT OF THIS PAST YEAR, BUT YOU KNOW, THESE ARE STILL EARLY DAYS.

>>OWEN KIRBY, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US TODAY.

>>DAVID.

KATIE.

NO, IT'S MY PLEASURE.

AND THANKS TO THE UNIVERSITY >>AND THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

WE'LL SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEK.

ON ANOTHER EPISODE OF GLOBAL PERSPECTIVES.