>>Thi week on NewsNight, governments throughout Central Florida come up with plans on how to enforce the state's ban on homeless people camping in public places.

And the panel looks at recently unveiled design concept for the future Pulse Memorial.

NewsNight starts now.

Hello, I'm Steve Mort, and welcome to NewsNight, where we take an in-depth look at the top stories and issues in Central Florida and how they shape our community.

Tonight, we're discussing issues of homelessness here in Central Florida.

The state's law banning outdoor sleeping and camping in public places took effect last year.

But on January 1st, the stakes for local governments of not enforcing the ban increased.

Businesses and residents are now able to sue cities and municipalities for failing to do so.

If there are not enough shelter beds, local authorities are allowed to establish public camps where people can spend the night just so long as they meet certain requirements and they provide services including sanitation.

States around the country saw a significant increase in homelessness in 2024.

First night, Krystel Knowles filed this report from Brevard County.

>>I meet you, thank you.

>>This nonprofit organization is on the frontlines of providing services to Brevard Countys unhoused.

>>We have a clothing exchange.

Our community is very generous.

>>Jeff Njus, executiv director of Daily Bread, argues the legislation banning camping in public places does not effectively address the root of the homeless problem.

>>Are we really going to address that problem?

Because we know what the solution is to people sleeping outside is to provide more places for them to sleep inside.

And the the danger is to handle the problem of homelessness, as if it's a problem o the visibility of homelessness, that seeing people outside is the problem.

No, people living outside is the real problem.

>>Part of the legislation signed by Governor DeSantis last year, allows counties and municipalities to designate areas for up to a year for public camping, provided there aren't enough beds in homeless shelters.

Amber Carroll, from the Brevard Homeless Coalition says the county lacks drop-in facilities where people can find a place to stay overnight on short notice.

>>I don't know how many could actually say that we don't have even one and everyone is very surprised when we say that, you know, they say, why don' you take someone to a shelter?

But we can't do that because they don't exist.

>>In a 2024 point-in-time count the Brevard Homeless Coalition found more than 1,100 people experiencing homelessness in the county on a single night, and the number of chronically homeless increased to more than 350, the highest number recorded in the county.

Amber Carroll says rent increases, rising food costs, unemployment and an aging population have created a perfect storm.

>>They are ending people' leases by doubling their rent.

And these are people, individuals, elderly, who've been on fixed income in their units for 20 years and find themselves with in a situation where they can't afford it next month and they're literally have nowhere to go.

Debra Kendall became chronically homeless after her house went into foreclosure.

She says it took about three years to find stable, permanent accommodations at the Genesis House, an emergency shelter for homeless women and children in Melbourne.

>>I couldn't get a job and they go, and someone told me, “your age because you're 60.” Since I turned 60, they said they don't want to hire you.

Theyd rather hir a younger person than hire you.

And my income what I made on Social Security wasn't enough to pay for apartment.

>>Municipalities in Brevard and throughout the region are now trying to come up with strategies for how to enforce Florida's ban on camping in public places, including adding emergency shelters and transportation services for the unhoused.

But some homeless advocates say they fear the legislation will result in criminalizing homelessness while doing little to solve the underlying problem.

>>So this is a place where people can come during the day, come for a meal and other resources.

And frankly, a day shelter is a pretty frustrating enterprise for people that don't need shelter during the day.

They need shelter at night.

>>Krystel Knowles, reporting there.

Her story is part of a collaborative initiative of independent local news outlets working toward a more informed and engaged Central Florida.

You can find all the data from Brevards 2024 Point-in-Time count on our website to read for yourself.

It's all at wucf.org/newsnight.

Well, as Krystel mentioned in her story, advocates worry that a scarcity of shelter beds in many places and the lack so far of designated areas for homeless people to sleep means some may be swept u in the criminal justice system.

We'll talk mor about how authorities in Orange Count are moving forward in a moment.

But first, let's stay in Brevard and hear from Tod Goodyear from the Brevard County Sheriff's Office.

He says officers will continue to enforce a local ordinance already in place, as well as state law.

>>Well, we would go out i we had a call, we would go out.

We can offer them shelters.

There are shelters that will take them.

So we will - that's part of our ordinance.

And part of the thing is that we have to offer the the ability to go to a shelter, and then if they don't go or say they won't go to a shelter, then we move into enforcing that ordinance.

This law really is more geared toward government.

And, so that we don't end up like some of the states have where they have designated that, homeless can just, put a tent, a sleeping bag on on anywhere, pretty much, and call it their residence.

So it keeps the county and city municipalities from doing that.

As far as law enforcement we will enforce the ordinances depending on what county and what city you're in.

There may be a city or county ordinance that that needs to be enforced.

And then, of course, the trespassing statute from the state as far as trespassing in an are that you're not allowed to be.

>>Tod Goodyear from the Brevard County Sheriff's Office.

Well, let's bring in our panel now to break it all down.

Joining us in the studio this week, reporters from three of our reporting partners on the homelessness issue.

Ryan Gillespie covers city government for the Orlando Sentinel.

Good to see you, Ryan.

>>Good to see you.

Thank you so much for coming in.

Lillian Hernández Caraballo from Central Florida Public Media also report for America covers housing and homelessness.

Nice to see you, Lillian.

>>You too, thank you.

>>And Nick Nick Georgoudiou from The Community Paper here in Orlando.

Good to see you, Nick.

>>You as well.

>>Thank you all for coming in today.

Lillian let me start with you on this.

Of course, wel talk about the local ordinances in just a moment.

But first, I want to talk about what changed on January 1st.

The law came into effect last year, right?

Describe what happened on January 1st and how that changes the dynamic.

>>What really kicked in was the provision that allows residents, business owners to file civil litigation to take civil action against counties or citie that are not enforcing the law.

So say, for example, you see someone sleeping in public.

>>Yeah.

>>You would report it, right?

Have some sort of evidence.

At that point, the cities and counties will have five days to address that.

If in five days you come back and that person's in the exact same spot, that means these counties and cities are not abiding by the law.

They're not complying.

You then get to, if you really want to, file civil litigation for this.

If you win the case, the recompense, the what you win would be any accrued litigating fees, any reasonable accrued litigating fees like attorney fees, court fees, whatnot.

The costs.

>>Right.

I mean, to that point, Ryan, I mean, what have you been hearing out in the community, both among homeless people, but also their advocates?

I mean, what are they thinking enforcement is going to look like now that local governments have to act and whether there might be court challenges?

>>Right.

So everybody was waiting for January 1st when those lawsuits could be filed, or at least the complaints would be made that would would spawn a lawsuit.

And so some of that is going to be dictated on the enforcement side of, are these complaints going to be flooding in?

So far, I don't think that's actually the case.

>>So they haven't seen a flood of complaints at this point?

>>My understanding is so far that's not the case.

But you know, all of that will change.

Probably depending o who you talk to the first time somebody wins a lawsuit.

>>Nick, we mentioned the figures, in Brevard County just now.

What does the homelessness issue look like, in terms of the numbers in the sort of Central Florida metropolitan area?

I mean, what are the trends?

We're expecting new figures fairly soon on that, right?

>>Yeah.

So the Homeless Services Network of Central Florida provides, what's known as the Point-in-Time count that happens in January.

They and volunteers from different groups and just general volunteers go out and actually do a physical count of the homeless community.

One of the things they found were was an increase, a pretty big increase in terms of the unsheltered count in Orange County, especially.

But orange, Seminole and Osceola.

>>So homeless people that don't have a place to stay?

>>Correct.

Yeah.

So about a 50% increase in that number.

Homelessness in general increased 23% year over year.

And so that's a prett big increase with only thousand or so beds to, for people to take advantage of.

You're talking about almost 3000 people, and that's a homeless count that is just on a census, if you will, where people are going out and, talking to the homeless and the unhoused.

That's not including people who maybe are avoiding any kind of interactions.

>>Yes, I was going to say, is it going to be an undercount?

>>Yeah.

So it doesn't it also includes somebody maybe who was just fired or is staying with friends or family.

In theory, they are unhoused.

They don't have a place to go.

>>The last time you were on, Ryan, we talked about your reporting on how prepared local governments were to to implement this, this camping ban.

Has there been, in your estimation, much progress on developing additional shared shelter space for homeless people since?

>>Locally when it comes to shelter, has there been progress?

I would maybe say nothing overly meaningful at this point.

The city is moving forwar on trying to set something up, which would be a fairly substantial shelter, the former Orange County Work Release Center.

That's not anywhere -- >>In Sodo, right?

>>Yeah, yes.

>>On Kaley.

>>Yes.

I don't think that that's, you know, there's been some stuff out there from the community that that's been an approved shelter.

It's not approved.

There's a lot of thing that have to happen between now and like the end of the year when such a thing could open.

So imminently, there's not an influx of shelter beds, like maybe you would expect or hope.

But I guess that would be the one sign of progress.

And I know Orange County's looking for some space too, but there's nothing imminent there.

>>I mean, we've seen push back, right?

In other communities to to potential sites for homeless shelters.

And that's the same in Sodo.

>>Yeah.

What happened is in district five is where most of the current beds are.

So a thousand out of the 1,100 and I think it was the Rock Lake community that really pushed back over last summer about another, facility opening up there.

And so that was canceled, put on hold.

>>Yeah.

>>And Orlando City Commissioner Shan Rose has been working with the county for a while trying to get this facility that was already on Kaley Street.

It has been abandoned fo about seven years now.

>>Yeah.

>>This work release facility and turning that into not only a shelter, but what she described as a community court.

So somewhere where people who are arrested for unhoused reasons or homeless reasons, can go to and get steered away from jail, potentially.

>>It's a diversion program.

>>Yeah.

Other organizations that might be able to help them.

>>Well, we'll keep an eye on how, local authorities are doing in developing those shelter spaces.

You can find a link to the reporting of all our partner outlets in the collaboration covering homelessness in Central Florida.

It's all at wucf.org/newsnight.

Okay.

Next tonight, let's talk about some of those specific local actions that governments are taking to comply with state law.

Orange Count last week voted 4 to 2 in favor of a new ordinance that bars people from spending the night on any public property under the threat of a fine of up to $50 and as much as 60 days in jail.

It doesn't apply, though, to sleeping in cars.

Troy Campbell from our reporting partner WKMG Channel 6, filed this report.

>>The first portion of the new law went into effect in October, banning people from sleepin or camping on public property.

It also requires local governments to provide housing and mental health services for those displaced.

Now, the second part just went into effect January 1st.

It allows people in businesses to sue their local government if they filed a complaint about someone camping and nothing was done five days later.

>>What goes through your mind when now a regular citizen or a business owner can file a complaint with the local government just to say they're seeing somebody who appears to be unhoused?

>>Insanity.

I think it's one of the dumbest laws the state has ever passed.

>>Eri Gray is the executive director of the Christian Services Center for the homeless.

He says the state law will not be effective in solving homelessness.

>>What are some concerns with the wa that this is set up currently?

>>One, the biggest issue is that it's unfunded.

So we're looking at tax dollars to implement and do a program that was initiated to u by the state with zero funding.

>>And the problem is not small.

According to the county's most recent data, there are just more than 2000 unhoused individuals in Orange County, a 24% increase from the year prior.

>>Do you have any fears of some possible outcomes?

>>I do, I think just the genera criminalization of homelessness can lead to the vilification of people experiencing homelessness.

The idea that someone who i homeless is less of a neighbor than anybody else in our community is a terrible thing to consider.

>>Troy Campbell from WKMG reporting.

We heard Commissioner Mayra Uribe there say that the measures the county is expected to take are not paid for unbudgeted expenses, if you like.

During a commission meeting last Tuesday, Mayor Demings said he hoped the state would help local governments foot the bill for enforcing the camping ban.

During this next legislative session, a lot of our legislative priorities is to become advocates that the state provide more dollars to address these issues since the state saw fit to pass these state laws and requirements.

And so we will be in Tallahassee advocating for additional funding from the state.

>>Orange County Mayor Jerry Demings there.

Lillian, let me start with you on this one, if you can.

Your colleagu Joe Byrnes covered that Orange County Commission discussion recently.

Give us a little bit of detail about what is in that ordinance.

>>In the ordinance is a provision to allow the arrest of people sleeping on public land, that is municipal land.

It does not include state land or anything outside of the Orange County jurisdiction.

However the commissioners say that the the main intention is going to be to actually approach these people and try to help them, try to get them to resources, try to actually get them out of their situation.

All else fails that they can arrest them.

If arrested, the penaltie can go, can range from anything from like $500 in fines, up to 60 days in jail.

>>I mean, you covere that discussion as well.

Ryan.

What were your takeaways, and did we get any idea from that about how law enforcement agencies, you know, might handle those issues of arrests locally?

>>Yeah, from from what I can gather from my conversation with law enforcement agencies, what they say is they do not want to be in the business of arresting homeless people.

>>I mean, they don't have much choice in the matter, right?

I mean, if there's an ordinance or a law that they have to enforce.

>>Yeah, it's it's a weird one.

There's not -- the law doesn't theoretically force them to arrest people but they have to do something.

So at -- what-- so at OPD, for instance, because I think we have the best data from OPD, they've kind of been dealin with this issue longer.

>>Yes.

>>They've got a homeless intervention unit of police officers who generally are dealing with this issue on a day to day basis, on a minute to minute basis.

And what OPD Chief Eric Smith told me is by the end of the year, they had something like 26,000 interactions with homeless people.

That's not 26,000 individual people, but it's interactions and they've made somethin like 500 arrests in that time.

But wha he says is those arrests aren't necessarily for people -- they're not arresting people for sleeping, but they're arresting people who may be unhoused and also have a warrant or a drug offense or some other kind of of, of charge that they can file.

>>Well, let's flesh that out a little bit.

I mean, Nick, Orlando where you covered as, as, Ryan mentioned, already had an ordinance in place about a year ago that expanded the definition of disorderly conduct, right?

To includ sitting or lying on sidewalks, intentionally blocking others passage.

I mean, are those the outcomes that that we've been seeing since that that rule was adopted?

What's your reporting been showing?

>>Yeah.

So that was prior to, the ordinance from the state.

>>Yes.

>>And so that came up according to an advocacy group called Revolutionary Education and Action Group.

They spoke to the Orlando Weekly about the issue, and they did some data reporting on what was happening from January to August, when it came to arrests of people who were transient or unhoused, about 1600 arrests.

Most were for trespass, open containers of alcohol, things of that nature.

About 18 arrests were under this new ordinance, and ten of those were identified as transient or homeless people.

>>If I may, Steve, I just want to comment something because I went to an Orange County meeting a few months ago where the commission and a few other people from outside the commission were working on the homeless court that you were speaking about.

And the idea of a homeles court is to reduce recidivism, meaning these people keep coming back to jail.

And if you give them $500 fines and criminal records, how are they ever going to get jobs or get out of homelessness, right?

So it's supposed to kind of address that rather than just keep pile on going.

In that meeting, they said the number one reason, the number one arrest, the number one charge on people who are transient is public defecation, public urination, which means that setting maybe public bathrooms, public restrooms in certain areas of town might easily get rid of that one, right?

>>So I just think it's interesting, as you say, because the, the, the Real Orlando group, was documenting these arrests.

And then when you come look at it, when you see the charges is something that we that perhaps could have been addressed a longer than before January 1st, 2025.

>>Yeah I was going to say it's unclear whether law enforcemen wants to arrest people or not.

It's the data is is pretty stark that it's kind of unquestioned that the arrests have increased in recent years, that we used to be this class of violations that we're talking about public urination, trespassing, whatnot.

They're classified in the court system as municipal violations.

And by and large, people who are arrested for municipal violations are transient or homeless.

And by and large, those arrests, the biggest increases are certainly in Orlando.

>>Yeah.

Let me let me just add I think it's important to note that the governor talked a little bit about the homelessness issue this week, vis-a-vis that Supreme Court ruling last year that came after the state passed its la that said that the governments could ban people for sleeping or camping in public, even if they didn't have anywhere else to go.

What does the governor say he wants now?

>>He hasn't really specified anything in particular.

All he said was we could have added a little bit more to it, which could mean that he could target municipalities more if they're not taking, more steps to advocate for getting people off of the streets, getting people into some sort of housing, or other care services that are out there.

>>Is there any sort of tangible ways that the state might be able to strengthen the law that he's currently got?

>>I mean, I'm sure there are.

To go back to the origins of this state law.

It was - the concepts of it were drafted by a group called the Cicero Institute, who has been behind a lot of these homeless laws that we've seen primaril in red states in recent years.

They were happy about Florida's law because at the time, at least, they thought it was the strongest one in the country.

This is a group that's ver influential with Ron DeSantis.

So my guess would be that there's some conversations with them on on what they would like to see.

And my guess would be that that would flow maybe all the way up to the new incomin Trump administration, as well.

>>Well, well certainly keep an eye on that for sure.

To note, we are recording the show on Thursday morning so things can change by air time.

Meanwhile, be sure to join the conversation on social media, were at WUCF TV on Facebook and Instagram.

You'll also find us on X at NewsNightWUCF.

Okay, finally, tonight we wanted to get an update on plannin for a permanent Pulse memorial on the site of the former nightclub.

>>At meetings late last year, survivors, families, community stakeholders and members of the Pulse Memorial Advisory Committe reviewed three design options.

Based on input from those discussions, architectural consultants presented a refined design concept last month, and the City of Orlando is now asking the broader community for input.

The city purchased the Pulse property in 2023 from the now defunct OnePULSE Foundation.

The concept under consideration features several elements, including a survivor's wall and a reflection pool, and is the result of a sometimes contentious process revolving around thorny issues, such as how much of the original Pulse Nightclub building should be preserved.

The city's budgeted some $7.5 million for the memorial to pay for the design and construction.

The Pulse Advisory Committe is expected to meet next month before the city council considers a final memorial plan.

>>Just a note public comment closes on the 22nd.

That's next week.

Nick, let's start with the process here.

We just heard that it was a contentious debate over what should go into the final design.

What were the main sticking points from stakeholders?

>>Yeah, I think towards the end, it was a matter of how much of the building to keep.

One mother who was on the committee, her daughter died in the attack, said that it was lik losing a part of her daughter.

That this was -- this was where she was.

And so I think that overall, though, for the most part, most of the people in the, in the group that were on the advisory committee came to the conclusion that this is what people wanted, based on the community outreach, based on the community feedback and based on what they were hearing from the people on the committee itself, the majority of people on the committee.

>>I mean, I guess the city knew that this was going to be a contentious process when when it agreed to buy the site and begin this whole process.

>>No, certainly, really the entire building of a Pulse memorial dating back to the now defunct, and largel disgraced OnePULSE Foundation.

I think they certainl poisoned the water a little bit among the Pulse community and made maybe increased skepticism of the city.

And, you know, the relationshi between the city and the Pulse community is also strange in its own ways.

I do think the city is pretty happy with the way this process has gone.

It's maybe taken a little bit longer than they expected.

Some of that is because a hurricane canceled some of some of their meetings.

>>Sure.

>> Which, you know, is understandable.

But I think they're happy with the process so far.

We'll see when public comment closes, if the public agrees with that.

But but they do seem to be on track to have a final design and kind of moving that process ahead here in the next few weeks to a month.

>>Well, let's talk about that design.

You know, one of the things that struck me from from looking at those renderings that we just saw just now is that it does seem to have some similarities, right from the earlier OnePulse design that we've talked about here on the on the show.

I mean, what kinds of components are there and how much of that building is being preserved?

>>So there are some similarities.

If you look at the at the OnePULSE design versus what the city's working wit now, and it's that kind of big sweeping arch that kind of goes across the property.

It's maybe not exactly the same, but the concept is the same.

So, so that's certainly a similarity.

And then some of the -- some of the building is going to be preserved.

It's not going to be standing like in its current form now where it actually looks like a building.

But there is -- I believe it's a one of the -- one of the walls is going to be remaining.

I think Nick might hav a better idea on that.

>>Yeah.

They've talked about one of the walls, chandelier potentially, converting some of the dance floor over and keeping that.

And so one of the things that they did as part of this process, they met I believe, around eight times.

They're meeting - their next meeting is February 4th, which is also open to the public, where they'll have an idea of what the final version will probably look like.

And, people can go to that and see it.

But one of the things they looked at were a number of other memorials.

And so they were able to say this, the reflecting pond from this memorial, seems like something that we would want to have in our final design.

>>So that February meeting, what will happen then?

I mean, what are the next steps?

Does the design then go to the city council?

>>Yeah.

So the city council will then look at it.

There will still be a lot of things that need to be done because these are just outlines.

There might be some, part of it that is too expensive, based on the budget that is currently involved and that I'm sure Mayor Buddy Dyer will be working towards, because he'd like to get this done before the end of his final term in 2027.

>>Well, it' been a long time in the making, and I'm sure a lot of people in the community would like to see a permanen memorial finally on that spot.

You can find a link to the Pulse Memorial design concept on our website, wucf.org/newsnight along the bottom of your screen.

Just to note, the governor this week called special session on immigration and other things to start Monday, January 27th.

Well preview that session next week on the program, but that is all the time we have for this week.

My thanks to Ryan Gillespie Lillian Hernández Caraballo and Nick Georgoudiou.

Thank you guys so much for coming in.

I really appreciate your time.

We'll see you next Friday night at 8:30 here on WUCF.

In the meantime, from all of us here at NewsNight.

Take care and have a great week.