>>Good morning an welcome to Global Perspectives.

I'm David Dumke.

Toda we're joined by Julie Anderson, who is the editor in chief of the Orlando Sentinel and The Sun Sentinel.

Welcome to the show.

>>Thanks, David.

>>So, Julie, you have worked in Tribune Publications for 34 years.

I believe you've been a professional journalist your whole life.

There's been a few slight changes in journalism over that time.

Tell me how things are right now.

You're editor in chief of two print journalists newspapers, but obviously a lot has gone digital in recent years.

Where is the newspaper industry these days?

>>Yeah, well, most of the newspaper industry has transitioned to digital, and so the majority of our readers actually do read on their cell phones or or on their computers.

But there are still, you know, a group of people who really want it in print.

And so we continue to serve them as well.

But I would say, you know, for the last 20 years it has been moving to digital.

You know, when I joined the business, you know, 40 years ago, it was probably the height of journalism.

We had so many resources.

It was before the Internet, before, you know, Google and Facebook had siphoned away a lot of our advertising and our support.

And so we were able to cover everything.

Today, not so much.

We really have to be focused.

And so the big difference really is that we have fewer resources and we have to be a lot mor selective about what we cover.

>>You are head of two pretty big newspapers, obviously two major metropolitan areas.

But you read more about consolidation, particularly in smaller market newspapers.

Who's filling the void for local news coverage, for example?

Or maybe I'm getting ahead of myself.

Tell me where are some of the gaps you find in coverage?

>>Well, unfortunately, a lot of the smaller markets, smaller towns have nothing.

They may be served by a TV station that is, you know, at a metropolitan area many, many miles away, but really can't afford to cover their town.

So there you know, there are huge gaps and in the US for any kind of coverage.

But fortunately, there are a lot of nonprofits that are springing up to try to to fill the gap.

And whether it be foundations that are funding these or families, you know, I think it' mostly families or foundations.

And they might just have two or three journalists, but they are you know, they're covering the city council meetings or or other areas that is of of importance to that to that market.

And those are the those are the gap fillers.

>>Professional journalism obviously, is something that that's that's been your career.

But you have today with social media.

You have you know, everyone wants to be a journalist even though there aren't the same kind of standards.

>>Or any standards.

>>Or any standards at all, o whether it's fake or not fake.

How has the news media responded to this?

And ar we've kind of reached a bottom and we can build up again, o are we still kind of adjusting?

>>Yeah, it's quite a challenge because I hear from readers, you know, almost daily, especially around election season, where they want readers who are getting their news on social as well, want to know why we're not covering something they saw on the Internet.

And it sometimes I have to look up and think like I have to research what they're talking about because it might be a conspiracy theory that is so far dee into the web that it really is not of of sort of general general interest or knowledge.

We don't try to cover conspiracies.

We don't legitimize them.

But sometimes they becom so big like QAnon, for example, that you you have to and you have to address it because it has become mainstream.

What we try to do is distinguish between what is hearsay and then what is vetted.

And our journalism is vetted information.

I mean, a lot of research goes into it.

Our reporter have many years of experience.

They know how to develop sources.

They know how to be skeptical and and ferret out what's what's real and not.

And that we just try to distinguish ourselves from people who are just writing opinion.

>>Traditional newsroom, you had reporters that were assigned different beats.

>>We still do.

>>Ho do you do the assignments now?

And are you spread thinner than you'd like?

Obviously, I'm sure.

And everyone-- >>We'd always like more.

Yeah.

>>How do you prioritize what gets covered and what doesn't get covered?

>>Well, one of the best things about being online is you have a lot of metrics about what readers are interested in and what what they're you know, what the trends are.

And so we, and it changes, I would say, during during the pandemic, you could not write enough about COVID and about what was going on in your community with restaurants shutting down and things like that.

But over time, people got tired of that.

And so, you know, you have to watch the metrics about what people are interested in.

And so our beats are kind of flexible.

Of course, we cover the basics.

We cover the counties, the county governments.

You know, we cover the elections, of course, police and all the major institutions, education, environment, etc..

But we leave ourselves enough flexibility that if there is something major going on in our community, that we can we can alter, we can change.

>>I want to get into a little more of the coverage later, but I want to talk a little about you and how you got into journalism.

You're an Orlando native and a UCF grad.

What made you decide to get in journalism as a professional career?

>>I was interested as a teenager.

I mean, I wanted to be a sports journalist, and at the time there weren't that many women and in sports and that was what I wanted to do.

But as you know, as I went to college, I went to UCF.

My interest became more of hard news, and I joined the school newspaper.

It was called The Future, and many great journalists came out of The Future.

And that really lit the fire.

And, you know, we were independent.

We covered we were a weekly independent, and we covered the school.

And it was a liberating it was fun.

There's really nothing like being in a newsroom.

I mean, what you see on TV, in the movies it really is kind of like that.

>>So you still get that adrenaline rush when you get a good, good story that you know?

>>Absolutely.

Yeah, that's the best.

>>So so you you decide to be a journalist, you start at the school newspaper.

Where does your professional career go from there?

>>So my first job was a a reporter at the Daytona Beach News Journal, and it was a smaller paper.

So I got to cover everything from city government to general assignment, you know, covering bike week and spring break and all that.

And then I went on to Orlando Business Journal and was a news editor at OBJ.

From there I went to The Sentinel and was what was known as the copy editor.

So reporters would write their stories.

I would go through it and clean it up, design the paper, etc..

But about that time that was in the early nineties, the Internet was starting to emerge.

Actually, it was commercial online services.

First, AOL, Prodigy, CompuServe and our company was trying to figure out what to do with it.

They knew it was big.

They thought it was going to be big.

And s they plucked a few journalists out of the newsroom and gave us an opportunity to experiment and that took me on a path that I never could have imagined.

And so I'd say for 20 years, my my career was really how to get news presentable online, how to how to understand how readers were consuming it online and how to train journalists to go from I'd say, a once a day deadline to a continuous deadline.

There's a lot of training involved in that.

So, you know, a lot of my career was just really kind of behind the scenes, helping the the newsrooms transform and transition to digital.

>>I want to get back to that in a second, but I want to also ask something you just mentioned on digital and kind of how that's created constant deadlines where you're you're writing constantly, you're covering stories.

Deadline.

Is there something lost in terms of the investigative story journalism process?

Were you or can you still do both?

>>You can do both, but there has to be a commitment to it.

So what we do is we have a lot of our journalists cove breaking news from their beats, but we have also dedicated people or allowed people t to pursue investigative stories that might take months to uncover.

In South Florida, when when the Parkland massacre happened at Marjory Stoneman Douglas, we initially had the entire newsroom of 80 journalists coverin that story, believe it or not.

But then we, after the initial story, you know, was done, we wanted to pull back and figure out what had happened.

And so we had a dedicated team of about 12 people that we kind of set aside just to work on that story.

And that was a huge commitment to take that much of a staff.

But that was a huge story for, you know, for the region.

So we thought it was important and we uncovered so much that if we hadn't done that, we never would have known, you know, why the killer was allowed to be in the school.

All the signs that were missed.

That led to a lot of safety measures that was adopted by the legislature.

We we uncovered that not one deputy didn't go in.

Eight didn't go in.

And that was not known.

So we uncovered so much that led to a lot of changes.

But it was important.

But it was the fact that we had to sacrifice other things.

People were taken off their beats to do this.

In Orlando, you know, we took three reporters off just to do a story we called Toxic Secret, which was a story about a little known contaminant that got into drinking water in Seminole County many years ago.

You know, it was still in there, but nobody knew about it.

And so, you know, our environmental reporter, Kevin Spear, got on to it.

He did a good job.

And we read the story and said there's there's more here.

So we pulled our health reporter and our Seminole County reporter into it, and they worked on it for months.

And then we finall published it this last summer.

That also had a big impact.

But you have to you have to decide to do that and you have to sacrifice in other areas to do investigative reporting.

>>So when you have something like Parkland massacre, obviously the news comes to you.

It's very evidence, a huge story.

But but then you compare this to the story you're talking about, Seminole County, which that takes real investigative work to find out A) there's a story.

And then to what extent is the impact.

>>Right.

>>You're the editor in chief.

So some of the decision making on where you put resources and time is, there is a resource.

You have to decide those things.

What what goes factors into that decision?

>>Well, we have to we have to make sure that there's a story there and that takes reporting.

So we allow reporters t figure out if there's a story.

Number one is, is there going to be sort o a great interest in this story?

Is it of great public interest?

Well, it could have an impact if if what we think is true is true.

And some of it we just have to let the reporter dig it out.

We we ferret out tip that end up not doing anything.

They're not really what we thought they were.

And so we have to drop those.

But, you know, the reporters, the best investigative reporting comes out of beat reporting.

And these are reporters who have been they've become subjec matter experts in their topics, and they have developed sources who become comfortable to tip them off.

And that's where you usually get the best investigative stories.

>>So you have to balance that, of course, with wha the public wants to read about.

And you now have you know, you're talking about entering digital journalism's kind of an experiment at the time.

You know, let's see where this goes.

Now it's much more scientific, you know, where readers go, what are some of the areas they want covered, clearly?

>>Well, I'd say in Orlando there is great interest and development and especially development of our rural spaces.

Two examples of that are the development of Split Oak, you know, the road, the road that would be going through Split Oak Forest.

And the other is the development that had been proposed on the east side of the Econlockhatchee, what's called the rural boundary in Seminole County.

We knew that was going to be ho because the attendance at those accounts, the commission meetings were big.

I mean when a thousand people show up, you know in Seminole County to protest, you know, you know, there's great interest.

And, you know, we we judge it from the metrics on our stories, from the letters we get to the editor, the emails that reporters get, all that kind of thing, we can tell.

>>So what are some of the other issues, areas that that resonate?

Obviously, you still have a very real you wanted to be a sports journalist that still resonates, but something local government may not resonate but actually be more important on day to day?

>>Well, I think anything tha affects somebodies pocketbook, whether it be the the investment that they've had in their home and what's going on in real estate is of great importance.

You know, the cost of living here has really risen.

That's a great interest.

I mean, just the story about property, the stories about property insurance and flood insurance and things like that, it seems dry, but it's not really when when it's really taking a big bite out of your your family finances.

People dial in.

People are interested in it.

>>You're you are working in journalism an era of extreme polarization in the world, but especially the United States and especially in the state of Florida right now.

How has that affected your coverage and kind of the coverage of politics, both the local state and national level?

>>Yeah, well we really try to focus on local because that's the one thing that we can do.

You know, we don't have a national bureau.

We pick up wires for that kind of coverage.

So we really try to focus on the issues that - and the politicians in central Florida.

You know, election season is coming up.

And we're looking at a very active election season with a lot of races and some time.

And what we're finding is that people who never were challenged before are going to be challenged in the primaries.

So it's gonna be very, very interesting.

And we feel like we have to cover all of that because nobody else is.

>>On the local coverage you're focused on local, of course, when you have an election, you know, Florida has been this battleground for four, you know at least the last two decades.

>>Right.

>>How much coordinatio do you have with national news bureaus who want to get Florida insight from the Orlando Sentinel or the Sun Sentinel?

>>Well, Florida has been such a has been under the microscope for a while, especially when the governor was running for president.

So The New York Times and other major outlets, you know, hired people just to report in Florida.

You know, they pulled from other, you know, local newspapers or whatever, but they stocked up just to report on Florida.

And so I'd say in years past, we had a lot of, you know, invitations to be on TV or or whatever to talk about it.

But Florida's becoming like one of the most talked about states in the country.

And so I'd say the national outlets are really getting their own experts.

So I'd say not as much coordination as as in years past.

>>Dealing with politicians.

Of course, you know, it's it's been you know, it's open seaso to take pot shots at the media and kind of blam the media for a lot of things.

And certain candidates do it more than others.

Florida has had sunshine laws that have allowed access.

I know it's something that you've covered both in editorials and in stories about politicians who don't want to follow those rules and kind of open information.

How how is this as a working journalist, how difficult has that made your job?

>>You know, it's one of the biggest issues we have right now i reporting is Florida has always been the envy of the countr for its public records access.

You know, it's written into the Constitution and and governments who withhold information, they have to cite a legislative exemption to be able to withhold that.

And what we're seeing now is that there are many governments, whether it be state agencies or even local agencies, are ignoring that.

And we have to get lawyers involved all the time to remind them about what the law is.

If they're not necessarily ignoring it, they might.

There are other ways that they can use to withhold that information.

One would be to charge exorbitant fees to have that information.

You know, we've had records requests where they'll say, in order to give you that information, we're going to charge you $10,000.

And it's like tha is a huge amount for a record.

And then we have to get our lawyers involved in they knock it down.

And really what they're asking what they're saying is that they have to redact information and that's the time that it would take to redact information.

But I think it's they've become a lot more bold about that and some and that some agencies are great and governments are are following the law.

But we're seeing more and more where they're flouting the law.

>>When you've had politicians who've gotten in trouble for one reason or another and there's been plenty of scandals at the local and state level and in central Florida and Florida in certainly in your time in the Tribune Company, there's been a tendency to blame the media for their problems.

Is that something that you take as kind of a badge of honor, or how do you how do you handle criticism of that?

>>You know, there's always been tension between politicians and the press.

I mean, always it's kind of, you know, politicians think they have a mandate because they've been elected.

And so they some of them don't want to be challenged.

They don't want to feel like somebody els is looking over their shoulder or shining a light on what they're doing.

And so there's always that tension.

I think what's a little bit newer is that the blaming the media for being like unamerican or or whatever, or being on one side of the of of of politics.

And I think that's that has undermined the trust in media.

We we've seen many surveys it tends to be more national than local but it it hurts local credibility as well when people question your motives.

>>How has, since you - you're saying there are still holdouts like myself who like actually having a newspaper in their hands, but so much of it more is is digital.

Has that changed the market as to who you're trying to get articles to, or is it local peopl following these issues or is it someone from anywhere in the United States or world really who want to look at what' going on in Orlando or Florida for some reason?

>>I would say Orlando is little bit of a different case because of of our theme parks and our, you know we're number one tourist destination in the country.

And so we have more people across the country who are dialed in to to what's going on in Orlando.

That may be a little bit of anomaly, but by and large, it's local people or somebody who has a tie.

Maybe they used to live here and they have family here and they still want to, you know, keep up to date about what's going on.

But usually there's a reason that they're subscribing here and it's because eithe they live here or they somehow they're invested in coverage here.

>>You're covering news for an increasingly diverse audience as well.

So you do have Spanish versions, for example, of the Sun-Sentinel.

How do you handle medi coverage in multiple languages?

>>Well, we don't anymore.

So I'd say about a year ago, we discontinued our Spanish language publications.

They were free weeklies, and there's not a marke much for free weeklies anymore.

When there are emergencies, whether it be hurricanes or the pandemic or things like that, we would have trends, we would translate stories, especially in cases of emergency, to make sure that, you know, we would actually hire translators to do that work, not relying on say, you know, there are sort of automated translators you could use.

We don't do that.

It's a challenge.

I mean, it's a it's a gap in our coverage.

>>I want to get int some of the individual stories you've covered.

Obviously, you won a - your paper won a Pulitzer for its coverage of the Parkland shooting.

What are some other stories that stand out to you recently or throughout your career that you're very proud of or, you know, had a huge impact?

>>Yeah, there have been so many.

I think the Parkland one was probably the biggest impact in our community in South Florida, in Orlando.

There are so many.

I mentioned the toxic secret.

There's there's one.

Our coverage of the Hungerford property in Eatonville that was about to be sold to the school was about to sell it to a developer.

And our reporter found decades old history about how that transactio went down way a long time ago.

And that changed the course o Eatonville, and in my opinion, still to be determined what happens to that land in Eatonville.

But, you know, I'm really proud of that reporter.

Doing the work and uncovering somethin that I don't think anybody knew today.

You know what?

What went down with that property?

You know, I'm, I'm just really proud of just the shoe leather work that our reporters have done.

Our education reporters have done covering the vouchers.

You know, the state stands and spends abou $1,000,000,000 on vouchers now.

And there's very little accountability for how that money is used.

And the the some of this the schools that the charter schools or the school that get those voucher dollars, they don't have to have, you know, teachers with college diplomas.

They're not doing you know, they're flouting fire safety rules and all kinds of things.

And our report unveiled that, and we've been covering that for years.

And I thin we're the only one in the state that's really covered it continuously.

So I'm really proud about that as well.

>>Do you see a linkage and you uncover this, for example, on on voucher funding.

Do you see a reaction in state legislature or state government to try to fix or address some of these problems?

>>Sometimes, not always.

You know, the with the Parkland shooting, we saw a lot of change, especially around school safety.

You know, and right after that massacre, I wouldn't take, the paper couldn't take full credit for this.

But they did change some gun laws.

You know, with toxic, toxic secret.

The county, Seminole County, really upped their testing.

And I don't think they would have done that if we hadn't been digging around asking about their testing.

And they have made it.

They've put it on their website now.

And that was as a result of our reporting.

So sometimes you see impact, sometimes it's local, sometimes at state.

That's what you hope for.

But it's still even if you don't see legislation out of it, it's still worth doing.

>>Just it needs to be known.

>>It needs to be known.

>>So we just have have a minute or two left.

I want to ask a little about the impact of AI and fake news on on your industry.

You still want to put out quality and accurate information to the public.

How do you respond when you have, you know, a sea of inaccurate information out there?

>>Yeah, it's it's going to be a challenge if it's if it's our information that they've taken and done it in such a way that it disparages our reporting or, you know, makes it makes it inaccurate, then we'll go after that company to make sure they correct it.

Yeah.

This is a this is a whole nother show about AI.

>>Right.

It was a challenge to see if you could condense it.

>>Yeah.

No it's going to be it's a it's a huge challenge and we're just uncovering what a challenge it is.

Our company in the Sentinel actually has sued OpenAI and, and, and Microsoft over the the way that they used our content to train their large language models.

And so I'm not really authorize to talk about the suit itself.

But we we it's a lot as well as The New York Times have sued them.

But we'll see how that turns out.

>>Are you proud of th watchdog role that your papers?

>>It's it's essential.

I think when we got fewer resources as we had to really decid what we wanted to do with them.

And watchdog is the reason we exist.

Frankly, it's the reason we have First Amendment protections is to be a watchdog on on government.

Frankly, that is our that is our role.

>>Julie thank you for joining us today and thank you for sharing your insights.

We will.

You've given an idea for the next show.

We'll do with you, which will be on AI in the news.

But thank you very much and thanks for the work that you and the reporters do.

>>Thanks for asking.

>>And thank you for joining us.

We'll see you again next week on another episode of Global Perspectives.