♪ MUSIC ♪ >>GOOD MORNING AND WELCOME TO GLOBAL PERSPECTIVES.

I'M DAVID DUMKE.

>>AND I'M KATIE CORONADO, WELCOME.

>>TODAY, WE ARE JOINED BY TWO GUESTS FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF BOTSWANA.

DR. WAME HAMBIRA IS A SENIOR RESEARCHER AT THE OKAVANGO RESEARCH INSTITUTE.

SHE IS A SPECIALIST ON CLIMATE CHANGE AND TOURISM, AMONG OTHER THINGS.

WE ARE ALSO JOINED BY DR. KEBAPETSE LOTSHWAO, WHO'S A PROFESSOR OF POLITICAL SCIENCE AND IS THE HEAD OF THE POLITICAL SCIENCE DEPARTMENT.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>>THANKS FOR HAVING US.

>>THANK YOU.

>>DR.

HAMBIRA, YOUR WORK IS VERY, VERY IMPORTANT.

CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT SUSTAINABILITY AND THE ENVIRONMENT AND BOTSWANA IN GENERAL TERMS, FOR SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T KNOW ABOUT HOW THE ENVIRONMENT IS CHANGING SPECIFICALLY IN BOTSWANA?

>>YES.

BOTSWANA IS ONE OF THE COUNTRIES THAT ARE ENDOWED WITH NATURAL RESOURCES.

NATURAL RESOURCES ARE PART OF THE ENVIRONMENT OBVIOUSLY, AND THEY'RE VERY, VERY IMPORTANT TO THE ECONOMY.

AND NOT ONLY TO THE ECONOMY, BUT ALSO TO THE LIVELIHOODS OF THE POPULATION.

THE NATURAL RESOURCES SUCH AS WILDLIFE ARE IN ABUNDANCE, THEY FORM THE BACKBONE OF THE TOURISM INDUSTRY, AND THE TOURISM INDUSTRY IS THE SECOND LARGEST REVENUE EARNER IN THE COUNTRY.

SO THE ENVIRONMENT REALLY IS WHAT THE ECONOMY OF BOTSWANA IS ALL ABOUT.

>>SUSTAINABILITY COMES NATURALLY FOR THE COUNTRY.

THE CONSERVATION EFFORTS COME NATURALLY BECAUSE THEY KNOW THE IMPORTANCE OF THESE NATURAL RESOURCES.

HENCE, THE COUNTRY IS A PARTY TO A NUMBER OF MULTILATERAL AGREEMENTS.

WE HAVE THE CONVENTION OF BIODIVERSITY.

WE HAVE THE CONVENTION ON WETLANDS.

WE HAVE THE UNITED NATIONS CONVENTION ON CLIMATE CHANGE.

SO THE COUNTRY IS PARTY TO ALL THESE CONVENTIONS BECAUSE THE ENVIRONMENT AND NATURAL RESOURCES PLAY A VERY IMPORTANT ROLE.

>>BOTSWANA HAS BEEN DESCRIBED AS PROGRESSIVE COUNTRY, AND YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT SOME OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL POLICIES THAT THE GOVERNMENT HAS EMBRACED.

I WANTED TO ASK YOU, DOCTOR, BOTSWANA IS ALSO KNOWN AS A BEACON OF POLITICAL STABILITY IN AFRICA.

WHAT ARE SOME OF THE KEY PILLARS TO THE BOTSWANA'S SUCCESS?

>>OH, THANK YOU.

I SHOULD START OFF BY POINTING OUT THAT BOTSWANA IS THE OLDEST MULTI-PARTY DEMOCRACY IN THE AFRICAN CONTINENT.

DEMOCRACY HAS BEEN IN PLACE SINCE ATTAINMENT OF INDEPENDENCE IN 1966.

UNLIKE OTHER COUNTRIES, POST-INDEPENDENCE DEMOCRACY WAS NEVER OUTLAWED.

ELECTIONS ARE HELD EVERY FIVE YEARS AND WE DON'T THINK DEMOCRACY WILL COLLAPSE IN THE NEAR FUTURE.

>>BUT ONE OF THE FACTORS THAT HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO BOTSWANA'S ABILITY TO MAINTAIN DEMOCRATIC POLITICS, I THINK, IS THE DEMOCRATIC CULTURE AMONGST THE PEOPLE.

THE CULTURE OF DEMOCRACIES INGRAINED IN THE CULTURE OF THE PEOPLE.

BECAUSE IN THE OLDEN DAYS, BEFORE THE ADVENT OF MULTIPARTY POLITICS, POLITICAL AUTHORITY RESIDED WITH TRADITIONAL AUTHORITIES.

THERE IS SOMETHING CALLED THE KGOTLA, WHICH IS THE VILLAGE ASSEMBLY.

PEOPLE WOULD GATHER THERE, MORE LIKE THE ATHENIANS WOULD GATHER IN GREECE, AND THEY WOULD DECIDE PUBLIC POLICIES, MAKE LAWS, BUT THE VILLAGE ASSEMBLY OPERATED ON THE BASIS OF FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION.

EVERYONE IN ATTENDANCE WAS ALLOWED TO PARTICIPATE AND SAY WHAT THEY WANTED TO SAY FREELY.

IT ALSO OPERATED ON THE BASIS OF POLITICAL TOLERANCE, WHERE EVERYONE WAS ALLOWED TO SPEAK, REGARDLESS OF THE VIEWS THAT THEY HOLD.

>>AS YOU CAN SEE, THESE PRINCIPLES ARE PART OF THE LIBERAL DEMOCRACY AS WE KNOW IT TODAY.

SO DEMOCRACY HAS ALWAYS EXISTED AMONGST THE BOTSWANA PEOPLE, AND THAT IS WHY THEY HAVE BEEN ABLE TO MAINTAIN DEMOCRATIC POLITICS CONTRARY TO OTHER SOCIETIES, OTHER COUNTRIES IN THE AFRICAN CONTINENT.

OF COURSE, THE ROLE OF LEADERSHIP WAS ALSO IMPORTANT BECAUSE THE FIRST PRESIDENT AND HIS SUCCESSOR WERE PEOPLE WHO BELIEVED IN DEMOCRATIC POLITICS.

I THINK THE FACT THAT THEY ARE THE FOUNDING LEADERS WAS ALSO CENTRAL, IN THE SENSE THAT WITHOUT THEIR SUPPORT, WITHOUT THEIR GOODWILL, MAYBE DEMOCRACY WOULD HAVE NOT BEEN SUPPORTED.

BUT BECAUSE THEY BELIEVED IN IT, THEY SUPPORTED IT, AND IT HAS BEEN PRACTICED FROM THEN TO THE PRESENT DAY.

>>OF COURSE, DEMOCRACY IS A PROCESS.

THERE ARE AREAS THAT REQUIRES STRENGTHENING, BUT OF COURSE ROME WAS NOT BUILD OVERNIGHT.

BUT I THINK WHERE THE COUNTRY IS, A LOT HAS BEEN ACHIEVED.

>>HOW DOES THAT RELATE TO MEDIA AND JOURNALISM IN BOTSWANA?

>>IN FACT, DEMOCRACY, AS YOU MAY BE AWARE, THERE'S A RECOGNITION OF THE IMPORTANCE OF ACCESS TO INFORMATION, FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION.

AND BOTSWANA IS ONE COUNTRY WHERE, SINCE INDEPENDENCE, THERE'S BEEN FREE SPEECH, THE PRIVATE MEDIA HAS BEEN ALLOWED TO OPERATE FREELY.

>>AND ONE OF THE GOOD THINGS ABOUT THE PRIVATE MEDIA IS THAT OVER THE YEARS IT HAS KEPT AN EYE ON THOSE WHO HOLD POLITICAL POWER.

IT HAS EXERCISED OVERSIGHT OR HELD POLITICIANS ACCOUNTABLE.

THE PRIVATE MEDIA HAS UNEARTHED CORRUPTION SCANDALS.

IT HAS DONE A GOOD JOB IN TERMS OF PUBLIC EDUCATION TO THE POPULATION AND THE LIKE.

AND I THINK IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT PRIVATE MEDIA JOURNALISM, FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION, THAT WE FIND A WAY OF CONTINUING TO PRACTICE AND ENSURE THAT THESE PRINCIPLES ARE INGRAINED FOREVER.

BECAUSE THEY'RE VERY, VERY IMPORTANT.

>>ECONOMIC STABILITY AND POLITICAL STABILITY OFTEN GO HAND-IN-HAND.

AND I WANTED TO ASK HOW BOTSWANA HAS DONE THROUGH THE COVID PERIOD.

I KNOW THAT TOURISM IS A VERY, AS YOU JUST WERE MENTIONING, IS THE SECOND BIGGEST ECONOMIC ENGINE IN THE COUNTRY.

>>HOW BADLY WAS THAT DAMAGED AND SOMETHING OF THAT NATURE OR LIKE THE HIV/AIDS CRISIS, HOW MUCH OF A THREAT IS THAT TO DEMOCRACY?

I THINK I'D LIKE TO START WITH THE QUESTION ON THE IMPACT OF TOURISM AND THEN- >>YES.

THANK YOU FOR THAT QUESTION, DAVID.

YES.

TOURISM, LIKE I SAID, IS VERY, VERY IMPORTANT TO THE COUNTRY.

IT'S THE SECOND HIGHEST INCOME EARNER.

WE RECEIVE LOTS AND LOTS OF TOURISTS EVERY YEAR, THEY COME IN MILLIONS.

SO IMMEDIATELY COVID HIT, THE BORDERS WERE CLOSED.

THERE WERE TRAVEL RESTRICTIONS.

NOBODY WANTED TO TRAVEL ANYMORE, SO THAT HAD AN IMPACT ON THE SECTOR.

IN OUR COUNTRY WE DEPEND MORE ON THE INTERNATIONAL TOURISTS THAN THE LOCAL TOURISTS, SO YOU CAN IMAGINE ONCE THE BORDERS WERE CLOSED, IT MEANS THAT WE DIDN'T RECEIVE ANY MORE PEOPLE COMING INTO THE COUNTRY.

>>THAT WAS A HUGE BLOW, ESPECIALLY TO THE SMALL, MICRO MEDIUM TOURISM ENTITIES.

BECAUSE MOST OF THEM, THEY OPERATE FROM RENTED FACILITIES.

SOME OF THEM HAD LOANS, SOME OF THEM COULD NOT EVEN KEEP THEIR STUFF.

IT WAS REALLY HARD.

SOME OF THEM HAVE CLOSED SHOP COMPLETELY.

THEY HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO RECOVER, EVEN AS THE BORDERS HAVE BEGUN TO OPEN SLOWLY LATELY.

IT WAS REALLY HARD, PEOPLE HAVE LOST THEIR JOBS.

YEAH.

REALLY ALSO TOURISM, REMEMBER FROM THE POINT OF VIEW OF BOTSWANA, IS MOSTLY, WE CAN SAY IT'S A [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] EFFORT, A COMMUNITY-BASED EFFORT.

MOST OF THE COMMUNITIES, THEY RELY ON TOURISM.

SO THEY'RE COMING TO JOINT VENTURES WITH INTERNATIONAL COMPANIES AS WELL, SO AS THEY COULD LOSE THOSE JOINT VENTURES WHEN IT COMES TO MAYBE THE HUNTING SAFARIS, SO ALL THOSE THINGS WERE ALSO CANCELED.

ONE OF THE IMPACTS ALSO OF CANCELLATION OF BOOKINGS MEANT THAT THE COMPANIES HAD TO REFUND THE TOURISTS.

IT WAS REALLY A DISASTER, IF I MAY CALL IT THAT.

>>ABSOLUTELY.

>>YES.

IN A PROPERLY FUNCTIONING DEMOCRACY, THE LEGITIMACY OF GOVERNMENT IS DERIVED FROM ITS ABILITY TO MEET THE EXPECTATIONS OF SOCIETY IN TERMS OF DEVELOPMENT.

AND FOR THE GOVERNMENT TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT IT REQUIRES AN ECONOMY THAT IS FUNCTIONAL, AN ECONOMY THAT IS ABLE TO CREATE OPPORTUNITIES AND RESOURCES REQUIRED FOR DEVELOPMENT.

AND ONCE THE GOVERNMENT IS ABLE TO BUILD SCHOOLS, INFRASTRUCTURE, PROVIDE SECURITY AND THE LIKE, IT'S RIGHT TO RULE OR LEGITIMACY IS STRENGTHENED, BUT YOU CAN SEE THAT THIS DEPENDS ON THE ECONOMY.

>>THEREFORE, YOU NEED THE ECONOMY TO FUNCTION FOR POLITICAL STABILITY TO BE THERE.

IF THE ECONOMY IS NOT PERFORMING, CHANCES ARE THAT THERE WILL BE POLITICAL INSTABILITY BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT WILL NOW NOT BE ABLE TO PROVIDE WHAT THE SOCIETY EXPECTS.

IT'LL NOT BE ABLE TO PROVIDE UTILITIES, EDUCATION, HEALTH, SECURITY, AND THE LIKE.

>>IN A NUTSHELL, I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT FOR THIS ALREADY REALIZATION THAT WE HAVE A MONO-ECONOMY THAT IS DEPENDENT ON NATURAL RESOURCES, PARTICULARLY DIAMOND.

OF COURSE, THERE IS AN EFFORT TO TRY AND DIVERSIFY INTO TOURISM AND OTHER SECTORS.

I THINK THERE'S A BIT OF WORK TO BE DONE AS FAR AS DIVERSIFICATION IS CONCERNED, BECAUSE THAT IS THE ONLY WAY TO ENSURE THAT POLITICAL STABILITY CAN BE GUARANTEED FOREVER.

THE GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO HAVE MONEY, ECONOMIC MUSCLE, FOR IT TO BE ABLE TO MEET SOCIETAL EXPECTATION.

AND IN THE PROCESS, GUARANTEE POLITICAL STABILITY.

>>YOU MENTIONED THE DIAMOND INDUSTRY, AND I AM CURIOUS, CAN YOU RELATE THE DIAMOND INDUSTRY TODAY TO THE SUSTAINABILITY EFFORTS?

IS THERE A CORRELATION THERE AND WHAT IS THE GOVERNMENT DOING OR HOW ARE YOU EDUCATING THE COMMUNITY ABOUT THAT?

>>YES.

DIAMOND IS A NATURAL RESOURCE AS WELL, BUT IT IS NON-RENEWABLE.

SO IT MEANS THAT IT WILL NOT LAST FOREVER.

GOVERNMENT IS OBLIGED TO COME UP WITH OTHER ALTERNATIVES IN TERMS OF DIVERSIFYING THE ECONOMY.

THAT'S WHERE TOURISM COME IN AND OTHER, LIKE AGRICULTURE, IT NEEDS TO BE ALSO REVAMPED SO THAT WE DON'T HEAVILY RELY ON DIAMONDS ONLY.

>>IN TERMS OF SUSTAINABILITY, SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT IS ALL ABOUT TRYING TO BALANCE ALL THE ENVIRONMENTAL OR CONSERVATION, AS WELL AS THE EQUITY IN TERMS OF WHAT TRICKLES DOWN TO THE SOCIETIES AS WELL AS THE ECONOMY.

IT'S AN IDEAL SITUATION WHERE YOU BALANCE THE ECONOMIC GROWTH WITH SOCIAL EQUITY, AS WELL AS CONSERVING THE ENVIRONMENT.

THAT'S WHAT SUSTAINABILITY IS ALL ABOUT.

WHETHER WE ARE ABLE TO STRIKE THAT BALANCE IS ANOTHER ISSUE, BUT THAT'S WHAT SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT IS ALL ABOUT.

>>DOCTOR, I WANTED TO ASK ABOUT THE RELATIONS BETWEEN BOTSWANA AND ITS NEIGHBORS.

WHAT IS THE STATUS OF THOSE RELATIONS AND IS THERE COORDINATION IN EDUCATION, FOREIGN AFFAIRS, OR IN ENVIRONMENT CLIMATE CHANGE ISSUES?

>>OKAY, THANK YOU.

AT THE TIME OF BOTSWANA'S INDEPENDENCE, IT WAS THE ONLY DEMOCRATIC COUNTRY IN THAT REGION.

BUT SOME OF THE COUNTRIES WERE ACTUALLY THREATENING THE COUNTRY, LIKE APARTHEID IN SOUTH AFRICA, RHODESIA AND THE LIKE.

BUT SINCE INDEPENDENCE, BOTSWANA HAS BEEN SMART ENOUGH TO STRIKE CORDIAL DIPLOMATIC RELATIONS WITH ALL THESE COUNTRIES, AND THOSE CORDIAL DIPLOMATIC RELATIONS REMAIN IN PLACE.

AND BOTSWANA IS ACTUALLY WORKING VERY WELL WITH THOSE COUNTRIES IN A NUMBER OF SECTORS.

>>THERE IS A REGIONAL ORGANIZATION CALLED THE SOUTHERN AFRICAN DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY.

ALL COUNTRIES IN THE SOUTHERN AFRICAN REGION ARE PART OF THESE ORGANIZATIONS.

AND I'LL SAY, THE RELATIONS BETWEEN BOTSWANA AND THIS COUNTRY ARE BILATERAL, BUT ALSO MULTILATERAL IN THE SENSE THAT THEY ARE COORDINATED AT THAT LEVEL OF REGIONAL ORGANIZATION.

AND THERE IS ACTUALLY COLLABORATION IN A NUMBER OF SECTORS ON THE ECONOMY, ON POLITICS, ON EDUCATION, ON WATER DEVELOPMENT, ELECTRICITY, AGRICULTURE, TOURISM.

I THINK A LOT HAS BEEN ACHIEVED.

AND BOTSWANA IN THOSE COUNTRIES, I THINK, ARE REAPING THE BENEFITS OF WORKING TOGETHER.

AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT I THINK SHOULD BE CELEBRATED AND SHOULD BE STRENGTHENED GOING INTO THE FUTURE.

>>WHEN IT COMES TO, YOU HAD SOMETHING TO SAY AS WELL, YES?

>>YES.

FROM THE ENVIRONMENT AND THE NATURAL RESOURCE POINT OF VIEW, BOTSWANA DOES NOT HAVE ANY CHOICE BUT TO WORK WELL WITH OTHER COUNTRIES.

FOR EXAMPLE, THE OKAVANGO DELTA, WHICH IS A VERY IMPORTANT TOURISM ATTRACTION IN THE COUNTRY.

IT ORIGINATES FROM ANGOLA AND THEN GOES THROUGH NAMIBIA.

AND THEN THAT'S WHEN THE DELTA COMES INTO BOTSWANA.

SO THERE'S NO WAY THAT IT CANNOT TALK WITH OTHER COUNTRIES, BECAUSE WHAT HAPPENS IN ANGOLA CAN HAVE ITS IMPACT ON DOWNSTREAM IN THE DELTA.

>>SO BOTSWANA IS PART OF THIS CROSS-BORDER HELD ENTITIES, LIKE WHAT IS CALLED OKACOM, THE OKAVANGO COMMISSION, WHERE THE THREE COUNTRIES, THEY HAVE AGREEMENTS ON HOW THE WATER RESOURCES CAN BE USED IN SUCH THAT THEY NO COUNTRY IS DISADVANTAGED.

IT'S NOT ONLY ABOUT OKAVANGO DELTA, EVEN THE LIMPOPO IS SHARED WITH ZIMBABWE AND MOZAMBIQUE.

SO NATURAL RESOURCES, SOME OF THEM, THERE'S NO WAY IN WHICH WE CAN SAY, "I CAN BEHAVE AS AN ISLAND, AS A COUNTRY, " WE HAVE TO WORK WITH OTHER COUNTRIES.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE CORDIAL RELATIONS WITH OTHER COUNTRIES.

>>AND TO ADD ON WHAT SHE JUST SAID, THE OTHER REALITY IS THAT BOTSWANA IS A COMPLETELY LAND-LOCKED COUNTRY, COMPLETELY SURROUNDED BY OTHER COUNTRIES.

IT DOESN'T HAVE ACCESS TO THE SEA.

>>FOR IT TO DIVERSIFY THE ECONOMY IT HAS TO EXPORT WHAT IT PRODUCES.

IT NEEDS THOSE COUNTRIES FOR TRANSPORTATION, FOR IT TO RECEIVE GOODS FROM OUTSIDE.

IT NEEDS THOSE COUNTRIES' TRANSPORT NETWORKS FOR THE GOODS TO REACH BOTSWANA.

SO I THINK THE REASON MUCH THAT BOTSWANA COULD DO, IT MAINTAINS CORDIAL RELATIONS, IT HAS DONE THAT AND I THINK IT'LL CONTINUE TO DO THAT.

>>THAT'S EXCELLENT.

AND WHAT ARE THE BIGGEST CHALLENGES IN THOSE COLLABORATIONS THAT YOU'VE NOTICED FROM A POLITICAL STANDPOINT?

I'M SURE WITH SUSTAINABILITY WE CAN FIND SEVERAL OPPORTUNITIES FOR DISCUSSION AS WELL.

BUT FROM POLITICAL, WHAT ARE THE BIGGEST MAYBE DIFFERENCES?

I KNOW THAT BEING CORDIAL IS REALLY IMPORTANT AND DIPLOMATIC.

TELL ME ABOUT THE CHALLENGES AND HOW YOU'VE NAVIGATED.

>>THANK YOU.

I CAN THINK OF TWO CHALLENGES.

ONE IS THAT WE HAVE, WHAT WE CALL, A REGIONAL [INAUDIBLE] , A POWERFUL COUNTRY NEXT DOOR, SOUTH AFRICA.

AND SOUTH AFRICA, I THINK, IT'S ECONOMY DEPEND LARGELY ALSO ON PROVIDING SERVICES TO THE NEIGHBORING COUNTRIES.

IN SOME INSTANCES THERE ARE TIMES WHEN SOUTH AFRICA IS OPPOSED TO ATTEMPTS BY ITS NEIGHBORS TO DEVELOP THEIR OWN INFRASTRUCTURE, BECAUSE IT WANTS THESE COUNTRIES TO CONTINUE DEPENDING ON IT BECAUSE IT BENEFITS FROM THAT.

IF BOTSWANA WAS TO CONSTRUCT, FOR INSTANCE, IT'S RAIL LINES THAT GO TO NAMIBIA OR MOZAMBIQUE, THAT WILL MEAN THAT THE RAIL LINK THAT LINKS BOTSWANA AND SOUTH AFRICA BECOME OBSOLETE.

IT'S NOT NECESSARY ANYMORE.

AND THAT IS GOING TO AFFECT THE SOUTH AFRICAN ECONOMY.

AND LIKE IN OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD, THE OTHER CHALLENGE THAT I CAN THINK OF IS THAT THERE'S A PROBLEM OF FREE RIDING BY SOME COUNTRIES.

YOU WISH YOU AGREE ON SOMETHING AS NEIGHBORS, AND SOMETIMES YOU AGREE, BUT WHEN IT COMES TO IMPLEMENTATION THERE WILL BE COUNTRIES THAT ARE NOT FORTHCOMING IN TERMS OF PUTTING THEIR CONTRIBUTION ON THE TABLE.

AND THAT HAS HAPPENED.

AND IT'S A CHALLENGE THAT I THINK HAS BEEN THERE AND IS STILL THERE AS WE SPEAK.

WE DON'T KNOW HOW TO RESOLVE IT, BUT MAYBE ALL OTHER COUNTRIES IS A REALITY THAT THEY HAVE TO DEAL WITH, FREE RIDING.

>>THERE'S BEEN SOME CONCERN FROM WASHINGTON ABOUT CHINA'S GROWING INFLUENCE IN BOTSWANA.

I WONDERED IF WE COULD ASK YOU BOTH A LITTLE TO TALK ABOUT, IS THAT REAL OR IS THAT SOMETHING THAT'S BEING IMAGINED LARGELY IN WASHINGTON'S MIND?

AND IF THE CHINESE INFLUENCE IS GROWING, WHAT ARE SOME OF THE POSITIVE AND NEGATIVE EFFECTS OF THAT?

>>OH, OKAY.

THANK YOU, DAVID.

I THINK THERE ARE BOTH POSITIVES AND NEGATIVES TO CHINA'S GROWING INFLUENCE.

PERHAPS THE POSITIVE IS THAT THROUGH RELATIONS WITH CHINA, BOTSWANA IS ABLE TO GET ACCESS TO LOANS AND DEVELOPMENT ASSISTANCE THAT IT NEEDS TO BUILD INFRASTRUCTURE.

OF COURSE, IT DOES THE SAME WITH ...

IT HAS THE SAME ARRANGEMENTS WITH OTHER COUNTRIES.

IT GETS LOANS AND THE LIKE FOR BUILDING ROADS, DAMS, AND THE LIKE.

THAT'S A GOOD THING BECAUSE WITHOUT CHINA, WITHOUT OTHER COUNTRIES, BOTSWANA WOULD STRUGGLE TO GET THAT FINANCES THAT IT NEEDS.

>>BUT THEN OF COURSE, ONE OF THE NEGATIVES IS THAT IN THE AFRICAN CONTINENT, INCLUDING BOTSWANA, THE RELATIONS HAVE BEEN CHARACTERIZED BY SOME LEVEL OF, I WOULD SAY, BAD GOVERNANCE IN THE SENSE THAT ... YOU KNOW CHINA'S FOREIGN POLICY, ONE OF THE PRINCIPLES IS NONINTERFERENCE.

SO THE CHINESE DON'T CARE WHAT HAPPENS IF THERE IS CORRUPTION.

IF THERE IS SOME FORM OF CORRUPTION, BAD GOVERNANCE, THEY DON'T PAY MUCH ATTENTION INTO THAT.

THEY ARE ONLY INTERESTED IN ACHIEVING WHAT THEY WANT.

THAT CAN BE A BAD THING IN THE LONG RUN, ESPECIALLY IF YOU DON'T HAVE A GOVERNMENT IN PLACE OR STRUCTURES OR INSTITUTION IN PLACE THAT CAN COUNTER CORRUPTION.

THAT'S, I THINK, SOMETHING THAT IS NEGATIVE.

>>THE OTHER NEGATIVE THING IS THE FACT THAT AS MUCH AS CHINA BRINGS MONEY AND RESOURCES, BUT THERE IS NO SKILLS TRANSFER BECAUSE CHINA BRINGS EVERYTHING.

BRINGS IT'S WORKERS, IT BRINGS ITS TECHNICAL PEOPLE AND THE LIKE.

THAT DOESN'T EMPOWER THE LOCAL PEOPLE, AND I THINK THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS NOT GOOD AT ALL.

>>IS THERE BACKLASH BECAUSE OF THAT?

>>NO, THERE ISN'T MUCH, BUT WE ARE SEEING IN THE PAPERS, IN THE MEDIA, THAT ONCE IN A WHILE THERE'S TENSION BETWEEN GOVERNMENT AND CHINA, BECAUSE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT CHINA WILL BE DOING WOULD ACTUALLY BE CONTRAVENING ESTABLISHED POLICY, THAT WE DEAL WITH PEOPLE WHO WE WANT TO EMPOWER OUR PEOPLE.

WE DEAL WITH PEOPLE WHO WE WANT TO OBSERVE OUR RULES, LAWS, AND THE LIKE.

>>YOU MENTIONED THAT YOU'VE SEEN IT ON THE NEWS OR ON MEDIA THAT THERE HAVE BEEN INTERACTIONS BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT AND MAYBE CHINESE LEADERS OR OFFICIALS WHO ARE THERE.

ARE YOUR PEOPLE IN BOTSWANA BEING ENCOURAGED TO LEARN MANDARIN, TO BE ABLE TO COMMUNICATE, OR IS EVERYTHING DONE MOSTLY IN ENGLISH?

DO YOU SEE MORE OF AN INFLUENCE IN LEADERSHIP?

SO THOSE ARE TWO QUESTIONS, SORRY, BUT THE FIRST ONE IS THE LANGUAGE.

DO YOU SEE CHANGES?

DO YOU SEE MORE PEOPLE WANTING TO LEARN EACH OTHER'S LANGUAGES, AND THE OTHER, BECAUSE COMMUNICATION IS KEY WHEN YOU'RE GETTING INTO THESE LEADERSHIP ROLES.

AND THE OTHER QUESTION IS, DO YOU SEE MORE CHINESE OFFICIALS IN LEADERSHIP ROLES THERE?

>>ACTUALLY, I SHOULD POINT UP FROM THAT, IN BOTSWANA THE LANGUAGE OF GOVERNMENT IS ENGLISH LANGUAGE.

THE UNIVERSITY, THE GOVERNMENT, WE USE ENGLISH LANGUAGE.

WE ARE A FORMER BRITISH COLONY.

BUT I ALSO WANT TO POINT OUT THAT IN RECENT YEARS, AT THE UNIVERSITY OF BOTSWANA, LIKE IN OTHER AFRICAN COUNTRIES, A CONFUCIUS INSTITUTE HAS BEEN ESTABLISHED.

AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IT DOES IS TO TEACH ENGLISH LANGUAGE TO THE PEOPLE OF BOTSWANA WHO MAY BE INTERESTED IN LEARNING CHINESE LANGUAGE.

I DON'T KNOW HOW IT IS DOING, BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE DOING BUSINESS IN CHINA, BUYING STUFF FROM CHINA.

SO IT IS IN THEIR INTEREST TO LEARN CHINESE FOR THEIR OWN SURVIVAL WHILE THEY ARE THERE.

AND NOT ONLY THAT, THERE ARE ALSO SOME AUTOMATED TELLER MACHINES, SO YOU GET MONEY WHICH DISPENSE CHINESE CURRENCY, MAYBE TO DEMONSTRATE THE EXTENT TO TRADE BETWEEN CHINA AND BOTSWANA IS GROWING.

BUT REGARDING THE SECOND QUESTION, I THINK THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT, OVER THE YEARS I THINK WHAT HAS HAPPENED IS THAT THE CHINESE AMBASSADOR HAS BECOME PERHAPS AS DOMINANT AS THE UNITED STATES AMBASSADOR, TO DEMONSTRATE THE EXTENT TO WHICH PERHAPS THE RELATIONS BETWEEN BOTSWANA AND CHINA HAVE BEEN GROWING OVER THE YEARS.

BUT THIS IS NOT TO SAY THAT CHINA IS THE MOST INFLUENTIAL FOREIGN POWER DOING BUSINESS WITH BOTSWANA, BUT I THINK ITS INFLUENCE IS GROWING.

>>FASCINATING TOPIC.

I WANT TO TURN BACK TO ANOTHER IMPORTANT GLOBAL TOPIC, AND THIS IS ONE WHERE CHINA HAS RECEIVED CRITICISM ON ITS ENVIRONMENTAL POLICY.

SO I WANT TO TALK TO DR. HAMBIRA A LITTLE ABOUT, WHAT ARE BOTSWANA'S BIGGEST CHALLENGES WHEN LOOKING AT CLIMATE CHANGE GOING FORWARD?

AND YOU WERE MENTIONING EARLIER THERE HAS BEEN A POLITICAL WILL TO MAKE PROGRESSIVE DECISIONS IN THESE AREAS.

DO YOU SEE ANY LIKELIHOOD THAT THAT WOULD CHANGE?

>>YES.

THE MAJOR CHALLENGE WITH CLIMATE CHANGE IS PUTTING IN PLACE ADAPTATION MEASURES AND MAKING COMMUNITIES MORE RESILIENT.

THAT WILL BE THE MAJOR CHALLENGE BECAUSE IT REQUIRES FUNDING, IT REQUIRES SUBSIDIZING THEM IN TERMS OF HOW THEY SHOULD WATER THEIR LIVESTOCK AND STUFF LIKE THAT.

SO THAT WOULD BE THE MAJOR CHALLENGE, THAT DO WE HAVE THE CAPACITY?

DO WE HAVE THE INSTITUTIONAL CAPACITY TO REALLY COME UP WITH APPROPRIATE ADAPTATION AND MITIGATION MEASURES SO THAT WE EMPOWER COMMUNITIES TO BE MORE RESILIENT?

BECAUSE IT REQUIRES A LOT OF MONEY.

>>I THINK THAT IS WHY IT IS KNOWN THAT DEVELOPING COUNTRIES BEAR MOST OF THE BRUNT OF CLIMATE CHANGE, IS NOT BECAUSE OTHER COUNTRIES DON'T EXPERIENCE THE IMPACTS, IT IS BECAUSE OTHER COUNTRIES HAVE MORE CAPACITY IN DEALING WITH THE EFFECTS.

BUT DEVELOPING COUNTRIES SUCH AS BOTSWANA, THE CAPACITY IS LOWER BECAUSE THERE ARE MANY COMPETING NEEDS IN TERMS OF THE LITTLE FUNDS THAT THE COUNTRY HAS.

>>WE ONLY HAVE ABOUT A MINUTE LEFT, BUT I WANTED TO ASK BOTH OF YOU, IF WE WANTED TO TELL SOMETHING ABOUT BOTSWANA, TO LEAVE A FEW IDEAS ABOUT BOTSWANA FOR OUR AUDIENCE IN CENTRAL FLORIDA, WHAT WOULD THAT BE?

WE CAN START WITH YOU, AND WE GO BACK.

>>YES.

I THINK WHAT I WANT TO SAY IS THAT BOTSWANA IS A VERY STABLE COUNTRY POLITICALLY, AND WE DON'T SEE THAT CHANGING.

AND AS SUCH, IT'S A COUNTRY THAT MAYBE OTHERS SHOULD LOOK UP TO IN THE AFRICAN CONTINENT AS TO HOW TO MAINTAIN MULTIPARTY POLITICS AND LIBERAL POLITICS GOING INTO THE FUTURE.

THANK YOU.

>>YES.

I WOULD JUST WANT TO SAY, TOURISM IS GOING TO GO A LONG WAY IN BEING ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT SECTORS TO THE ECONOMY AS THE COUNTRY, EVEN DIVERSIFIES THE TOURISM PRODUCT AWAY FROM MAYBE JUST NATURE-BASED, GOING INTO URBAN TOURISM.

AND SO WE INVITE EVERYBODY TO KEEP COMING TO BOTSWANA TO SEE THE BEAUTY THAT WE HAVE.

>>WELL, DR. LOTSHWAO, DR. HAMBIRA, IT HAS BEEN GREAT TO TALK TO YOU BOTH ABOUT THESE VERY IMPORTANT TOPICS.

WE LOOK FORWARD TO HAVING YOU BACK, AND WE'RE GLAD TO SEE YOU AGAIN, THIS TIME LIVE THANKFULLY.

>>IT'S A PLEASURE.

>>SO THANK YOU.

>>THANK YOU.

>>THANK YOU.

>>THANK YOU.

>>THANK YOU.

>>AND THANK YOU.

WE'LL SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEK ON ANOTHER EPISODE OF GLOBAL PERSPECTIVES.