>>GOOD MORNING AND WELCOME TO GLOBAL PERSPECTIVES.

FROM OUR HOME STUDIOS, I'M DAVID DUMKE.

>>AND I'M KATIE CORONADO, WELCOME.

>>TODAY, WE ARE JOINED BY PALESTINIAN LAWYER AND FORMER PLO NEGOTIATOR, DEANNA BUTTU.

DEANNA, WELCOME TO GLOBAL PERSPECTIVES.

>>THANK YOU.

THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>>WE'RE VERY INTERESTED IN TELLING OUR AUDIENCE ABOUT YOUR BACKGROUND AND HOW YOU GOT STARTED, AND WE KNOW THAT YOU GREW UP IN CANADA.

SO, TELL US ABOUT YOUR BACKGROUND.

>>YES.

I WAS BORN AND RAISED IN CANADA.

MY PARENTS ARE PALESTINIAN.

THEY ARE PALESTINIANS WHO ARE CITIZENS OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL, WHICH IS TO SAY THAT IN 1948, DURING THE ETHNIC CLEANSING OF PALESTINE, MY PARENTS WERE AMONG THOSE WHO REMAINED.

AND TODAY THE POPULATION OF ISRAEL.

THERE'S ABOUT 20% OF ISRAEL'S POPULATION ARE IN FACT PALESTINIAN CITIZENS OF ISRAEL.

BUT GROWING UP THAT WASN'T A FACTOR IN MY UPBRINGING.

I WAS BORN IN CANADA, EDUCATED IN CANADA, RAISED IN CANADA.

AND WHAT REALLY MOVED ME WAS WHEN I WAS A TEENAGER AND CAME TO VISIT PALESTINE FOR THE VERY FIRST TIME, IT WAS THE START OF THE FIRST PALESTINIAN UPRISING.

AND I WAS VERY MOVED BY ALL OF THE IMAGES OF YOUNG KIDS WHO WERE FACING OFF AGAINST SOLDIERS, PEOPLE WHO WERE OUT IN THE STREETS, DEMANDING THEIR FREEDOM.

AND THE MORE THAT I LEARNED ABOUT PALESTINE, THE MORE THAT I FELT COMPELLED TO ACTUALLY TRY TO DO SOMETHING, IN MY OWN VERY NAIVE AND VERY ARROGANT WAY.

AND SO THIS IS WHEN I BEGAN TO REALLY THINK THAT IT WOULD BE IMPORTANT FOR ME WITH THE LIMITED SKILLS THAT I HAVE TO TRY TO BECOME A LAWYER AND TO TRY TO, SERVE MY PEOPLE IN MY CAUSE.

>>SO YOU FINISHED LAW SCHOOL.

HOW DID YOU FIND YOUR WAY ON A PEACE NEGOTIATING TEAM?

>>KIND OF STUMBLED THROUGH IT MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE.

SO IN, FROM THE EARLY...

I GUESS IN THE MID '90S ONWARD, THERE WAS WHAT IS COMMONLY REFERRED TO AS THE PEACE PROCESS.

AND I WAS ONE OF THESE INDIVIDUALS WHO LIKE MANY OF MY GENERATION WAS VERY PERSUADED BY A LOT OF THE MEDIA AND WAS VERY ELATED BY THIS IDEA THAT THERE WERE GOING TO BE NEGOTIATIONS AND THAT THERE WAS GOING TO BE PEACE BETWEEN ISRAEL AND THE PALESTINIANS.

NOW, I WAS NAIVE ENOUGH NOT TO KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THAT MEANT, BUT I ALSO VERY MUCH BELIEVED IN WHAT I WAS BEING TOLD AND WHAT I HEARD, WHICH WAS THAT THERE WAS GOING TO BE AN INDEPENDENT PALESTINIAN STATE AND SO ON.

AND SO FROM THE TIME THAT I WAS AN UNDERGRADUATE UNIVERSITY, AND THEN IN LAW SCHOOL, I COMMITTED MYSELF TO A LOT OF PALESTINE ACTIVISM AND THERE WASN'T A LOT IN THAT PERIOD, AND IN THOSE DAYS, AND IN MY ACTIVISM, IT TOOK ME TO BSA UNIVERSITY VISIT BEING IN THE USA, WHERE I SPENT A SUMMER WORKING FOR A HUMAN RIGHTS ORGANIZATION CALLED [INAUDIBLE] , AND ALSO SPENT THAT SUMMER DOING SOME RESEARCH AT [INAUDIBLE] UNIVERSITY.

I WAS VERY FORTUNATE, VERY BLESSED.

AND THROUGH THOSE CONNECTIONS, I LEARNED THAT THEY WERE LOOKING FOR LAWYERS WHO WERE GOING TO HELP WITH WHAT WE ALL WERE TOLD, WAS GOING TO BE A PEACE AGREEMENT.

AND SO ONE OF MY MENTORS ENCOURAGED ME TO APPLY AND ENCOURAGE ME TO THINK OF IT AS JUST A YEAR OF TAKING FROM MY LIFE TO TRY TO HELP A CAUSE I VERY MUCH BELIEVED IN.

AND SO I APPLIED AND ENDED UP GETTING A JOB.

NOW WHAT HAPPENS THEN IS A LITTLE BIT MORE OF THE SHOCKER, WHICH IS THAT I LEFT CALIFORNIA.

I WAS DOING MY PHD AT THE TIME AT STANFORD LAW SCHOOL AND ARRIVED IN PALESTINE AT THE END OF SEPTEMBER OF THE YEAR, 2000.

AND THAT ENDED UP BEING THE FIRST DAY OF THE SECOND INTIFADA.

SO, ALL THROUGHOUT MY PERIOD OF LIVING HERE, I'VE LIVED THROUGH THIS PERIOD, OR I LIVED THROUGH THE MOST VIOLENT TIMES THAT I CAN REMEMBER IN HISTORY APART FROM 1948 AND 1967, THOSE WARS AND OF COURSE THE ATTACK AND [INAUDIBLE IN 2014.

AND SO I REMAINED, I ENDED UP MOVING HERE AND REMAINING.

AND THE ISSUE BY REMAINING WAS ALSO A QUESTION OF CHOICE.

I HAD THE CHOICE TO GO BACK TO THE UNITED STATES AT THE TIME.

I HAD THE CHOICE TO GO BACK TO CANADA, VISIT MY [INAUDIBLE 00:05:27] , BUT I DECIDED TO STAY.

AND ALTHOUGH IT WAS DIFFICULT, I'M GLAD THAT I DID.

>>WHAT ARE SOME OF THE KEY SKILLS YOU FEEL THAT YOU HAVE, THAT HAVE HELPED YOU THROUGH NEGOTIATIONS AND THROUGH YOUR CAREER?

>>I'M NOT SURE IF I HAVE ANY SKILLS.

I PICKED UP SKILLS ALONG THE WAY.

WHEN COMING INTO, AS I REFLECT BACK IS WE'RE NOW AT THE 20TH ANNIVERSARY WITH THIS.

WHEN I REFLECT BACK, I MIGHT BE THAT BEING HARD ON MYSELF, BUT I REMEMBER BEING NAIVE.

AND I REMEMBER THINKING THAT THIS WAS JUST A QUESTION OF A MATTER OF THE TIME BEFORE AN AGREEMENT WOULD BE SIGNED AND I WANTED TO BE THERE.

I WANTED TO BE ABLE TO HELP.

I WANTED TO DO WHAT I CAN DO.

AND NOW THAT THIS TIME HAS PASSED, THE SKILLS THAT I PICKED UP ALONG THE WAY ARE A LOT OF THINGS OF FIRST GETTING RID OF THAT ARROGANCE AND THAT NAIVETE , WHICH WAS VERY IMPORTANT.

SECOND, WAS TO REALLY SPEND TIME OPENING MY EYES AND LISTENING.

A LOT OF WHAT BROUGHT ME TO PALESTINE WAS THE MYTHS THAT THERE WAS GOING TO BE A PEACE AGREEMENT.

IT WAS THE MYTH THAT THE PEACE PROCESS WAS WORKING.

AND IN A WAY, I'M GLAD THAT I WAS NAIVE BECAUSE IF I HAD LISTENED TO THE CRITICS, PEOPLE LIKE EDWARD SNYDE AND OTHERS.

I PROBABLY WOULDN'T HAVE COME HERE.

AND AS I SAID, I AM GLAD THAT I CAME.

SO, I THINK THE SKILLS THAT PICKED UP ARE LISTENING AND SEEING, AND EXPRESSING, AND NOT BEING AFRAID TO EXPRESS, NOT BEING AFRAID TO TELL PEOPLE WHAT IT'S LIKE, WHAT'S HAPPENING IN PALESTINE, NOT BEING AFRAID TO EXPLAIN WHY IT IS THAT WE SEE THE THINGS THAT ARE HAPPENING HERE AND NOT TRYING TO SUGAR COAT THINGS.

I SPENT MANY YEARS IN MY LIFE BEING TOLD THAT WE SHOULD SUGARCOAT THINGS TO MAKE THINGS A LITTLE BIT MORE PALATABLE FOR WESTERN EATERS OR FOR DIPLOMATS, OR FOR OTHERS.

AND ALONG THE WAY, I'VE LEARNED THAT, THAT JUST DOESN'T WORK.

THAT WHAT'S REALLY NEEDED IS A DOSE OF REALITY.

AND THAT'S IT, SO THOSE ARE THE SKILLS THAT I'VE PICKED UP ALONG THE WAY.

I CAN'T SAY THAT I HAD ANY REALLY GREAT SKILLS COMING HERE.

>>YOU JUST MENTIONED 20 YEARS OF WORKING IN THIS AND AROUND THIS.

AND YOU'VE MET SOME VERY HISTORICAL FIGURES, ARAFAT, ABBAS, CLINTON, GEORGE BUSH, NETANYAHU, BUT NONE HAVE DELIVERED PEACE FOR THE PALESTINIANS.

SO, YOU CONTINUE TO WORK ON THESE ISSUES AND YOUR DEDICATION CONTINUES.

HOW WAS THAT, DO YOU FEEL THAT YOU'RE WORKING ON A FUTILE CAUSE?

>>IT'S NOT FUTILE, FOR ME THIS IS THE LITMUS TEST OF A LOT OF DIFFERENT ISSUES AROUND THE WORLD.

AND I'LL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE.

SO THIS PAST SUMMER, ISRAEL WAS TALKING ABOUT ANNEXING PARTS OF THE WEST BANK.

AND THAT ANNEXATION CALL... ANNEXATION, BY THE WAY, IS ILLEGAL.

IT'S THE TAKING OF ANOTHER LAND FROM ANOTHER COUNTRY AND DECLARE IT YOUR OWN.

AND WE ALL KNOW THAT THAT'S ILLEGAL.

IT'S THE INTERNATIONAL LAW 101.

IT SAYS THAT YOU CAN'T TAKE THE LAND OF ANOTHER COUNTRY.

AND WHAT WAS INTERESTING THROUGHOUT THE SUMMER AS PEOPLE WERE TALKING ABOUT ANNEXATION, IS THAT EVERYBODY KEEPS REFERRING IT BACK TO THE ISSUE OF JUST PALESTINE, BUT IT ISN'T JUST A QUESTION OF PALESTINE.

IT'S THE LITMUS TEST FOR HOW WE WANT THE WORLD TO BEHAVE.

IF WE THINK THAT IT'S OKAY FOR ISRAEL TO ANNEX THE WEST BANK, FOR ISRAEL TO STEAL PALESTINIAN LAND, THEN WHY IS IT OKAY FOR OTHER COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD TO DO THE SAME?

AND AREN'T WE GOING DOWN A VERY SLIPPERY SLOPE AND SAYING THAT WE'RE IN A WORLD WHERE MIGHT IS RIGHT, RATHER THAN WHERE THE LAW IS RIGHT, OR WHERE LOGIC IS RIGHT, WHERE PRINCIPLES ARE RIGHT.

AND SO FOR ME, THIS ISN'T A FUTILE CAUSE, IT'S DEFINITELY A CAUSE THAT'S NEAR AND DEAR TO MY HEART.

AND IT'S ONE THAT I CAN'T SEE MYSELF GIVING UP AT ANY POINT IN MY LIFE.

BUT THIS ISN'T JUST THE QUESTION OF PALESTINE, BUT THE BIGGER, MORE GLOBAL ISSUES OF HOW IS IT THAT REFUGEES ARE TREATED?

HOW WAS IT THAT WE DEAL WITH THE THEFT OF LAND?

DO WE ACTUALLY BELIEVE THAT ALL PEOPLE SHOULDN'T BE FREE?

DO WE ACTUALLY BELIEVE IN EQUALITY?

AND SO WHILE THE CASE IS SPECIFIC TO PALESTINE, THE ISSUE IS MUCH BROADER THAN PALESTINE AND IS DEFINITELY NOT A FUTILE ONE.

I FEEL THAT BY WORKING ON THE CAUSE OF PALESTINE AND PALESTINIAN FREEDOM, THAT THIS IS JUST A STEPPING STONE FOR CREATING A DIFFERENT WORLD, A BETTER WORLD IN WHICH WE RESPECT HUMAN RIGHTS, IN WHICH WE NOT JUST RESPECTFUL, BUT PUSH FOR THEM, WHICH WE PRESS FOR FREEDOM THAT WE BELIEVE IN EQUALITY.

AND THAT TRANSCENDS DOWN WELL PAST PALESTINE, GOES BEYOND THE BORDERS INTO ALL ASPECTS OF MY LIFE, AND INTO THE LIVES OF OTHERS.

AND I MUST SAY, I'M INDEED AND ONE OF THE ONES WHO WAS VERY PRIVILEGED, I HAVE THE ABILITY TO BE IN PALESTINE.

THERE ARE MILLIONS OF PALESTINIANS WHO CAN'T EVEN STEP FOOT ON THE SOIL, BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT JEWISH, BECAUSE THEY WERE BORN IN A REFUGEE CAMP, BECAUSE THEIR PARENTS ARE PALESTINIAN, OR BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN ACTIVE ON PALESTINE IN WAYS THAT I'VE BEEN ACTIVE, BUT IN THE UNITED STATES OR CANADA OR IN OTHER COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD AND THEY'RE BARRED FROM ENTRY.

SO FOR ME, I FEEL PRIVILEGED THAT I CAN WORK ON THIS CAUSE.

IT DOESN'T AT ALL FEEL FUTILE.

AND I'M HOPING THAT BY WORKING ON THIS, WE CAN ACTUALLY SEE A BETTER WORLD, A BETTER FUTURE.

>> DEANNA, YOU MENTIONED THE WORD PUSH, AND THERE'S ALWAYS SOME CONTROVERSY BEHIND TRYING TO PUSH AND MAKE CHANGE HAPPEN.

HOW DO YOU CREATE ALLIES ON THE OTHER SIDE AND HOW IMPORTANT IS IT?

>>IT IS VERY IMPORTANT.

AND SO I SHOULD GIVE YOU A COUPLE OF STORIES ABOUT ALLIES.

WHEN I FIRST MOVED TO PALESTINE IN THE YEAR 2000, ONE OF THE FIRST PROJECTS THAT I WORKED ON WAS AN OUTREACH PROJECT IN WHICH I WAS TRYING TO REACH OUT TO ORDINARY ISRAELIS TO CUT PAST A LOT OF THE PROPAGANDA THAT THEY SEE HERE.

NOW, WHEN I SAY PROPAGANDA, I MEAN PROPAGANDA.

ISRAEL IS A COUNTRY THAT IT REALLY THRIVES ON SINGLE MEDIA, WHICH IS TO SAY THAT IT DOESN'T MATTER WHICH WAY THE NEWSPAPER OR THE TV STATION LEADS.

THERE'S A CERTAIN VISION THAT THEY HAVE WHEN IT COMES TO PALESTINIANS.

AND SO, MY INITIAL ENTRY POINT WAS TO TRY TO CUT PAST THAT AND TO REACH OUT TO JUST EVERYDAY ISRAELIS AND TO LET THEM HEAR WHAT IT WAS LIKE LIVING JUST A FEW KILOMETERS AWAY FROM THEM, BUT LIVING UNDER ISRAELI MILITARY RULE.

AND IT WAS A FASCINATING EXPERIENCE.

I DID IT FOR A LITTLE BIT OVER A YEAR.

AND THROUGHOUT THAT TIME, ANYTHING THAT YOU CAN IMAGINE SHORT OF BEING ATTACKED HAPPENED TO ME, WHETHER IT WAS BEING KICKED OUT OF PLACES OR HAVING PEOPLE SWEAR, OR EVEN HAVING SOMEBODY SPIT AT ME.

ALL OF THESE THINGS HAPPENED.

AND I REALIZED THAT THAT WASN'T THE PATH THAT WAS GOING TO CREATE PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO BOND WITH US.

IT WAS MOSTLY A WAY FOR THEM TO BE ABLE TO RETORT BACK, TO SEE PALESTINIANS, AND MAKE US SHOUT AT PALESTINIANS.

BUT THE REAL WORK OF GOING BEYOND THAT STARTED WITH A LOT OF PALESTINIAN ORGANIZATIONS AND A LOT OF ANTI-OCCUPATION ISRAELI ORGANIZATIONS.

THESE ARE NOT JUST ISRAELI ORGANIZATIONS, BUT ORGANIZATIONS THAT BELIEVE IN WHAT WE CALL CO-RESISTANCE.

SO, IT'S NOT COEXISTENCE, BUT CO-RESISTANCE.

AND THE IDEA BEHIND CO-RESISTANCE IS THAT THERE ARE SOME ISRAELIS WHO ARE ALLIES IN OUR STRUGGLE FOR FREEDOM, AND THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE ALSO COMMITTED THEIR LIVES BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT THESE CRIMES TO BE COMMITTED IN THEIR NAME.

NOW, THE NUMBERS ARE NOT HUGE IN ISRAEL.

AS I MENTIONED, THERE'S A BIG PROPAGANDA MACHINE THAT EXISTS HERE, BUT ALTHOUGH THE NUMBERS ARE NOT HUGE, THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE VERY, VERY, VERY DEDICATED.

AND OVER THE YEARS, IT'S HEARTENING TO SEE THAT THESE NUMBERS HAVE INCREASED OVER TIME RATHER THAN DECREASED OVER TIME.

AND THAT MORE AND MORE ACTIVITIES, MORE AND MORE CO-RESISTANCE ACTIVITIES ARE HAPPENING THROUGHOUT OVER THIS PERIOD.

>>SO LET ME ASK YOU A LITTLE, YOU'RE TALKING ON THE PEOPLE LEVEL.

I WANT TO ASK YOU A LITTLE ON THE LEADERSHIP LEVEL.

YOU HAVE BEEN CRITICAL OF COURSE, OF ISRAELI POLICY, BUT YOU'VE ALSO BEEN CRITICAL OF PALESTINIAN LEADERSHIP AND PERHAPS THE OBJECTIVES OF THE PALESTINIANS.

WHAT SHOULD THE PALESTINIAN LEADERSHIP BE SEEKING RIGHT NOW?

WHAT IS REALISTIC?

>>THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION, DAVID.

AND IT'S HARD FOR ME TO ANSWER IT IN A VACUUM.

I'LL START THROUGH THE NEGATIVE AND THEN GO TO THE POSITIVE.

MY CRITICISM OF THIS PALESTINIAN LEADERSHIP, IS BASED ON TWO VERY MAJOR ELEMENTS.

THE FIRST IS THAT THIS IS A LEADERSHIP THAT HAS NOT BEEN ELECTED.

THE LAST ELECTIONS THAT WE HAD FOR THE LAST PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS WERE IN 2005.

THE LAST GENERAL ELECTIONS, THE LAST PARLIAMENTARY ELECTIONS WERE IN 2006.

AND SO, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT GENERATIONS.

IF YOU WERE BORN IN 1989, OR AFTER THAT, YOU HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO VOTE IN A SINGLE PALESTINIAN ELECTION.

AND JUST TO CLAIM THAT THESE INDIVIDUALS STILL HAVE A MANDATE IS A BIT OF A JOKE.

I MEAN, IT'S NOT JUST A BIT OF A JOKE, IS A JOKE.

SO, THAT'S ONE MAJOR CRITICISM.

THE SECOND MAJOR CRITICISM THAT I HAVE IS THAT THIS SAME LEADERSHIP HAS CLUNG TO THE IDEA OF THE PEACE PROCESS.

AND EVEN THOUGH WE'VE SEEN THAT THE PEACE PROCESS HAS FAILED, EVEN THOUGH WE'VE SEEN JUST WHAT A DISASTER IT'S BEEN FOR PALESTINIANS, AND IN TERMS OF DISASTER, I CAN JUST DESCRIBE VERY QUICKLY.

OVER THESE 27 YEARS THAT WE'VE BEEN IN SO-CALLED PEACE PROCESS.

WE'VE SEEN A TRIPLING OF THE NUMBER OF ISRAELI SETTLERS TO THE POINT WHERE, THAT ONE QUARTER OF THE POPULATION OF THE WEST BANK IS NOW ILLEGAL AS [INAUDIBLE 00:17:06] THOSE.

WE'VE SEEN OUR FREEDOM OF MOVEMENT GO BACKWARDS.

WE'VE SEEN THE FREEDOM OF WORSHIP GO BACKWARD.

BECAUSE PEOPLE CAN'T GET TO JERUSALEM TO PRAY.

WE'VE SEEN OUR ECONOMY GO BACKWARDS.

AND YET THIS PALESTINIAN LEADERSHIP CONTINUES TO CLING TO THE IDEA THAT THERE SHOULD BE A NEGOTIATED AGREEMENT BETWEEN ISRAEL AND PALESTINIANS.

AND WE JUST KNOW THAT THAT'S NOT GOING TO WORK.

SO, THAT'S WHERE MY TWO CRITICISMS COME FROM.

SO PROJECTING FORWARD, WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN IS FIRST AND FOREMOST, WE MUST HAVE ELECTIONS.

IT DOESN'T MAKE A SENSE AT ALL THAT WE HAVE A LEADERSHIP THAT'S IN PLACE THAT HASN'T BEEN DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED.

AND THAT WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO VOTE IN ANY ELECTION, EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE THE ONES WHO ARE GOING TO BE FIELDING THE IMPACT, THE LONG-TERM IMPACT OF THESE DECISIONS.

SO THAT'S THE FIRST THING.

AND THE SECOND THING IS I THINK THAT IT'S REALLY WELL PAST TIME FOR THEM TO EXAMINE THIS PEACE PROCESS AND ASK THEMSELVES WHETHER THIS IS SOMETHING THAT THEY SHOULD CONTINUE WITH.

I AM SOMEBODY WHO ADVOCATES THAT WE SHOULD BE ABANDONING THE PEACE PROCESS, BECAUSE A LOT OF PEACE PROCESS IS JUST A PROCESS BY WHICH ISRAEL GETS TO TAKE MORE LAND.

AND I THINK INSTEAD, WE SHOULD BE PRESSING TO HOLD ISRAEL ACCOUNTABLE THROUGH THE BOYCOTT DIVESTMENT SANCTIONS MOVEMENT, THROUGH PRESSING TO HOLD ISRAEL ACCOUNTABLE LEGALLY, FOR MAKING SURE THAT GOVERNMENTS AROUND THE WORLD DON'T GIVE ISRAEL A PASS, FOR MAKING SURE THAT THE CONGRESS DOESN'T GIVE ISRAEL $10 MILLION A DAY.

THIS IS WHERE I THINK ENERGY SHOULD BE SPENT.

AND THEN BEYOND THAT, THIS IS WHERE I THINK THERE'S A BIGGER CONVERSATION TO BE HEARD, WHICH IS THERE'S ALWAYS THIS DISCUSSION OF, SHOULD IT BE TWO-STATE, SHOULD IT BE ONE-STATE?

I HAVE MY OWN OPINION.

I DO BELIEVE IN ONE-STATE, I'M AN ADVOCATE FOR ONE-STATE, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, I'M NOT IN A POSITION...

I HAVEN'T BEEN ELECTED.

I'D BE FALLING INTO THE EXACT SAME THING THAT I AM ACCUSING THIS LEADERSHIP OF, IF I WERE THE PERSON TO SAY, WE MUST BE PURSUING A ONE-STATE PROCESS.

>>DEANNA, EARLIER, YOU MENTIONED THAT THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT IMPACTS MANY PLACES AROUND THE WORLD, THE ISSUES OF HUMAN RIGHTS OF FREEDOMS.

SO I WAS WONDERING IF YOU'VE BEEN APPROACHED OR YOU HAVE WORKED WITH OTHER COUNTRIES, OR IF YOU HAVE PLANS OF COLLABORATING AND USING YOUR SKILLS OR YOUR EXPERIENCE IN OTHER PLACES?

>>YES, I HAVE.

BUT I THINK BEYOND THAT, FOR ME, IT'S NOT JUST A QUESTION OF USING THE SKILLS TO ADDRESS COUNTRIES, BUT ALSO TRYING TO GO DOWN TO THE MUCH MORE SOLIDARITY LEVEL AND WORKING IN SOLIDARITY WITH OTHER GROUPS AROUND THE WORLD THAT ARE ALSO PUSHING AND SEEKING THEIR FREEDOM AND THEIR LIBERATION.

AND THIS IS WHY IT'S BEEN SO INTERESTING TO SEE THIS, THE COLLABORATION BETWEEN THE BLACK LIVES MATTER MOVEMENT AND MOVEMENT FOR BLACK LIVES AND THE PALESTINIAN RIGHTS MOVEMENT.

AND JUST HOW MUCH SOLIDARITY EXISTS BETWEEN THESE MOVEMENTS.

BECAUSE SO MUCH OF IT IS THE SAME, AND OF COURSE, THERE ARE DIFFERENCES, BUT SO MUCH OF IT IS THE SAME, WHICH IS THE IDEA OF STATE VIOLENCE, THE ISSUE OF SOME PEOPLE NOT BEING TREATED WITH DIGNITY, WITH EQUALITY, WITH THE SAME RIGHTS, AND SO ON.

>>TO THE EXTENT THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS UNITY, HAVE YOU SEEN THE NOTICE, THE NARRATIVE CHANGE OVER THE LAST 20 YEARS AND IN A POSITIVE DIRECTION OR IN A NEGATIVE DIRECTION?

>>IT'S BEEN BOTH THE POSITIVE AND NEGATIVE.

LOOK ON THE POSITIVE SIDE, IT'S AN INTERESTING FOR ME, I'M NOT AMERICAN, I'M NOT A US CITIZEN, BUT IT'S BEEN INTERESTING FOR ME TO BE ABLE TO WATCH WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE UNITED STATES, PARTICULARLY OVER THE LAST, LET'S SAY FOUR YEARS.

IN THE PAST, I REMEMBER THAT ISRAEL WAS SUCH A BI-PARTISAN ISSUE THAT YOU HAD DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS EQUALLY COMING OUT IN SUPPORT OF ISRAEL, EVEN AT THE WORST DAYS, EVEN AT A TIME, THE WORST DAYS THAT I PERSONALLY WITNESSED.

EVERYTHING FROM RESOLUTIONS DECLARING SCHROEN A MAN OF PEACE AFTER HE HAD JUST INVADED THE WEST BANK AND KICKED ME OUT OF MY HOUSE.

THE ISRAELI ARMY KICKED ME OUT OF MY HOUSE.

I'VE SEEN THAT TO, WHERE WE'RE NOW BEGINNING TO SEE A CHANGE IN AT LEAST A DISCUSSION ON THE CHANGE IN PLATFORMS WITHIN THE DEMOCRAT PARTY.

SO FOR EXAMPLE, WE'VE SEEN THAT, THAT THERE HAS BEEN A PUSH TO INCLUDE SUPPORT FOR PALESTINIAN RIGHTS.

WE'VE SEEN A COUPLE OF BILLS THAT HAVE BEEN INTRODUCED INTO CONGRESS BY BETTY MCCULLOUGH, DEMANDING THAT PALESTINIAN CHILDREN BE TREATED WITH DIGNITY AND NOT BE SUBJECTED TO IMPRISONMENT AND TORTURE.

SO, THERE HAS BEEN DEFINITELY SOME POSITIVE MOVEMENT, AND THAT'S REALLY THANKS TO THE EFFORTS OF A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES WHO'VE BEEN PUSHING HARD FOR THIS.

ON THE FLIP SIDE, IS THERE STILL IS THE SAME TYPE OF NARRATIVE.

I SEE THAT WHENEVER ISRAEL ATTACKS PALESTINIANS, WHICH IS VIRTUALLY EVERY DAY.

IT'S USUALLY FRAMED IN THE CONTEXT OF ISRAELI SELF-DEFENSE.

AND SO THERE IS STILL A LACK OF UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT IT MEANS TO LIVE UNDER ISRAELI MILITARY OCCUPATION.

AND I CAN GIVE AN EXAMPLE.

FOR EXAMPLE, WHEN ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ WAS INVITED TO SPEAK FOR BY PEACE NOW, AT AN EVENT FOR ITS YITZHAK RABIN, THE FORMER ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER, WHO WAS ASSASSINATED ABOUT 25 YEARS AGO.

WHEN SHE DECLINED, AND SHE DECLINED, THE CRITICISM THAT CAME OUT WAS THAT SHE SHOULDN'T DECLINE AND IT WAS THIS IMAGE OF TRYING TO REMAKE YITZHAK RABININTO SOME SORT OF A DOVE.

AS PALESTINIANS REMEMBER HIM, HE WAS CERTAINLY NOT A DOVE.

HE WAS NOT ONLY THE PERSON WHO WAS BEHIND A POLICY OF MAKING THE BONES OF PALESTINIANS DURING THE FIRST THING TO FATHER CHILDREN.

AN ISSUE THAT REALLY POLITICIZED ME.

BUT EVEN BEYOND THAT, IF YOU LOOK INTERNALLY INTO THE WAY THAT HE WAS RULING IN FEBRUARY, 1994, THERE WAS AN ISRAELI SET LEARNING, BROOKE GOLDSTEIN, WHO WENT INTO A MOSQUE, A PALESTINIAN MOSQUE IN HEBRON, IN THE PALESTINIAN CITY OF HEBRON.

AND AS PEOPLE WERE PRAYING THE DAWN PRAYERS DURING THE MONTH OF RAMADAN, HE SHOT PALESTINIANS IN THE BACK.

AND IN THE AFTERMATH, A TOTAL OF 68 PALESTINIANS WERE KILLED OVER THE COURSE OF THREE DAYS BETWEEN BROOKE GOLDSTEIN AND THE ISRAELI ARMY.

NOW YITZHAK RABIN HAD THE ABILITY AT THAT TIME TO PULL OUT THE ARMY AND TO PULL OUT THE 400 ISRAELI SETTLERS THAT WERE LIVING THERE, BROOKE GOLDSTEIN WAS ONE OF THEM AND HIS FAMILY WAS DEFINITELY ONE OF THEM.

AND YET, INSTEAD OF TAKING THAT BOLD STEP OF PULLING OUT THE ISRAELI SETTLERS, HE DID THE OPPOSITE AND MADE SURE THAT THEY WERE FORTIFYING.

AND SO, WHEN WE SPEAK TODAY IN THE UNITED STATES OR AROUND THE WORLD, AND PEOPLE'S UNDERSTANDING, THEY STILL DON'T SEE THE HARM THAT IS CAUSED BY ISRAELI MILITARY RULE.

AND INSTEAD, WE'RE ALWAYS BEING ASKED TO SOMEHOW FORGET OR GLOSS OVER OR IGNORE THE PAST THAT THESE INDIVIDUALS HAVE, AND PRETEND AS THOUGH SOMEHOW THEY WERE PEACENIKS BECAUSE THEY SAID THE WORD PEACE.

WHEN IN REALITY, THEY HAD CHOICES AND THEY MADE THE CHOICE TO CEMENT THE OCCUPATION RATHER THAN TO ACTUALLY END IT.

>>DEANNA, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

WE KNOW THAT WE HAVE AUDIENCE MEMBERS WHO PROBABLY THINK MUCH DIFFERENTLY THAN YOU.

SO, WE WANT TO THANK YOU FOR SHARING YOUR EXPERIENCE, YOUR EXPERTISE, AND WHAT WORDS DO YOU HAVE FOR THE AUDIENCE IN GENERAL ABOUT THIS CAUSE?

>>FIRST, I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME ON YOUR SHOW.

AND I REALLY HOPE THAT PEOPLE EMBRACE THE CAUSE FOR PALESTINIAN FREEDOM.

I THINK THAT WE SHOULD BE LOOKING TOWARD A WORLD IN WHICH WE ARE DEMANDING EQUALITY, RATHER THAN CONTINUING TO DEFEND OR PROMOTE A SYSTEM OF SEGREGATION AND LACK OF EQUALITY.

>>DEANNA BUTTU, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US TODAY.

WE APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

>>THANK YOU BOTH.

>>AND THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK ON ANOTHER EPISODE OF GLOBAL PERSPECTIVES.