>>Good morning and welcome to Global Perspectives.

I'm David Dumke.

Today, I'm joined by the Consul General of Germany in Miami, Andreas Siegel.

Welcome to the show.

>>Hello.

Thank you for having me.

>>Well, I wonder I want to start by asking you a little about what the consulate in Miami does and kind of how do you how would you end up there?

You have a long diplomatic career.

>>Well, yes, I've been working in the diplomatic service for Germany for about 30 years now.

And my first foreign assignment was the US.

And my last is here because afterwards I'm going to retire.

But yeah, well, what we do, we do.

We are of course catering for our German population with German nationals.

We have about 250,000 German citizens living in Florida, many of them dual citizens.

So lots of consular work in that respect.

And my main task as the Consul General is to promote good bilateral and transatlantic relations in all walks of life political, economic, cultural, academic.

And that's why I'm here today also at the International Education Week at UCF.

>>Well, appreciate you being here.

I want to start by talking about some contemporary issues.

The biggest one in Europe, of course, right now is the ongoing conflict in Ukraine.

Could you tell me tell us about Germany's position on the conflict and where you see things are headed?

>>Well, first of all, I wouldn't describe it as a conflict.

It's an invasion of a bully, Russia, of a smaller nation in the neighborhood, Ukraine.

And well, for Germany, this has been a big paradigm shift, I would say, on a number of policy areas, because Germany had a good economic partnership with Russia for the time being before the war started, and in particular imported gas from Russia, which constituted about, well, 50% of German gas imports, gas being about a 10% part of German energy mix altogether.

So it makes a difference whether you have that or you don't.

And as you may remember, Nord Stream 2, the two pipelines passing through the Baltic Sea have been a big bone of contention for a while.

And immediately after the invasion of Russia, Ukraine German government decided to stop any further project importing gas from Russia via that pipeline and basically ending up saying that under these conditions, we cannot import any more gas from Russia at all.

Another policy area which which changed or had to change was security policy, because until then, Germany had been still after after World War Two had been sort of under the European and NATO's umbrella protected and under the impression that this is now peace after German unification and the end of the Iron Curtain in particular.

But this sort of fragrant and sort of throwback for 100 years by Putin beyond everything international law and all the treaties that Russia signed that had sort of a strong impact on German policy in the way that the German government pledged a creation of a special fund for creating defense capabilities in Germany and for NATO, and also to change its arms export policy, which until then was sort of restraining exports to areas of conflict quite, quite a lot.

But with Ukraine being in need of of massive support, Germany decided also to get rid of that rule and to to be able to help Ukraine, as we do currently, for example, with a very effective air defense system, which has helped a lot through the past few months.

>>This is a quite significant change in German policy.

>>Yes.

>>And particularly, you know, Germany, as you know, was involved in Afghanistan in sending your military there.

Is Germany - does this mark a moment when Germany's going to be more assertive in global affairs, not just diplomatically, but with with when necessary, with your military forces?

>>Well, Germany has always, after the Second World War, of course, has developed a very strong multilateral sort of feeling and policy was stimulated by multilateralism to begin with.

German, Franco-German friendship after centuries of arch enemy.

And we work very well together with France.

And this is sort of the basic axis also to to find compromise within the European Union.

So as we export more than 50% of our goods into the European Union, of course, Germany is interested in maintaining the cohesion of the European Union and to keep that together.

But this invasion of Ukraine was, of course, a confirmation of what a number of people had said before that Germany, in addition to being a soft power and economic power, needed to realize that it needed to stand up also for the hard things in life and build up a hard power as well.

>>So part of the Ukraine war, as you you outlined, was Germany's energy needs.

And, you know, a lot was coming from - of gas supply was coming from Russia.

What are the where has Germany turned?

I know some coal plants have been restarted, but where is Germany turned to for their energy needs?

And we're going into winter, of course.

So the energy needs will increase and that's for one year.

But what if this this war goes on for a long time, will Germany permanently change your energy mix?

>>Well, as you may know, there was a big decision under the Merkel government in 2011 to have a conversion of energy towards possibly climate neutral energy and to get out also of nuclear energy.

And now this is a little bit modified as being a little bit modified right now, but Germany is sticking to its commitment to the COP 27 and to the general process to to become climate neutral by 2045.

So first of all, we have strengthened the renewable energy component at the moment as we speak.

German energy consumption is provided by 55% from renewable energies.

I think that's quite high for comparable industrialized countries.

But the immediate consequence of this crisis, of course, has to be to reduce energy consumption.

So there are different measures in place to for this winter to to overcome this gap with lacking gas from from Russia.

And one positive development is that we were able to fill up the gas reservoirs, tanks up to 99%, actually, and they were empty in the summer, drop down to about 40%.

So that was a big, big effort.

And that was has been able to be implemented because new providers came in from the Maghreb countries, from from Spain, from Norway, from Qatar, among others.

And there are new contracts being being made.

And fundamental decision has also been made, which is to install LNG liquid gas terminals so that Germany can also take advantage of that, which is of course a good step in renewing and improving still commercial relations with the United States as well.

>>So is there a danger, a danger or a lesson to be learned by, you know, Germany has been a big proponent of trade for for for years.

It's been a real boon to your economy.

Is there a lesson to be learned with the Ukrainian situation on relying on one source or making sure that you have the options of going to multiple sources?

We're talking about German energy needs now, but it's also a lot of food needs of countries that are friendly to Germany and others.

>>Yeah, well, I think already during the pandemic we've learned the lesson that with supply chain problems we need to diversify our resources.

And that has been exacerbated by the Russian crisis right now.

And yes, definitely that and in particular, from the German perspective, China comes into the picture with which we have very close economic ties and many German, for example, automobile manufacturers are producing still in China and other tech and chip manufacturing and so on is also playing an important role.

But if you observe sort of the current situation, our Chancellor is currently traveling in Southeast Asia.

He's been to China, he's been to Vietnam, he's going next to Jakarta, to the G20, and he's ending up in Singapore for a big annual conference of the Asia Pacific industry to reevaluate the situation.

And one of the consequences will certainly be, yes, we also have to diversify our relations with China and see with the ASEAN countries what we can do more.

And of course, also to look back to our trans-Atlantic partners, Canada, United States and we are convinced that we can do more there as well.

>>So I want to get into the US-German relations, which, of course, have been very, very close on the economic policies and on defense policies.

But there has been bumps along the road.

Was Chancellor Schroeder opposed the Iraq war when President George W Bush opted to to invade Iraq?

And then you've you know, you've had meetings between Angela Merkel and Donald Trump were something of legendary status.

How are things today?

>>Under the current U.S. administration, I think the understanding of the need to cooperate internationally has sort of become very pertinent to to everyone.

And the Russia crisis and the pandemic, I mean, has shown that as well.

We've learned that lesson in Europe in the 1950s with the when we started with the coal and steel community, that was a revolutionary idea to put together previous enemies like France and Germany and to administrate together a very important, very important raw materials like coal and steel, and to create a supranational institution which would manage all of this.

And this was the basis for the European Union.

And this entered into the German DNA of today that this sort of voluntarily created interdependence is really a win win situation for everyone who is cooperating.

And that's what our philosophy is of foreign trade, foreign policy, and that we hope that this is understood by others as well.

And, of course, in terms of trade, we need to respect international rules established by the World Trade Organization.

And we have a number of little issues and irritations here and there about non respect of rules of protectionism and so on.

And on the German side, of course, we are sort of trying to to establish a common understanding that it's mutually beneficial if we play the game according to the rules.

>>You mentioned the EU, so I did want to ask about where how stable is the EU?

First of all, you had Brexit, you've had movements in other countries that haven't resulted in countries leaving, but it suggested some fragility there.

Is the EU strong today?

Is it something that's going to be reliable or do you anticipate if tough economic times come that countries will opt for a more nationalistic approach?

>>Well, that's a very good question.

And indeed, the times are tough and the temptation to sort of revert to populist and nationalistic ideologies is is there.

But if you look back a little bit, you can see the EU has been confronted in the past 12 years with a number of crises, financial crises, 2008, 2009, big, big problem with Greece and Italy, which were finally solved.

Migration crisis with which is still lingering a little bit the the way we are receiving migrants from different parts of the world.

With Ukraine there's unanimity everyone is is in solidarity too of receiving the Ukrainian refugees.

As you mentioned, Brexit, that was unexpected and well, a, I would call it irrational decision, but we have to live with it and arrangements have been made to live with it.

And then you have the pandemic and you had the Russian the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

So all this are these are enormous problems, which are of some internal, some external and triggered by external factors.

And at the same time, we have an institutional setup in the European Union, which is complicated and not everyone understands it.

So in public opinion, it's easier to say, Oh, we take a national decision on this issue and we will resolve this problem.

But most of the time the problems are much more complicated and have a European component and that you need the other part of the EU to to give in.

And so I'm optimistic, having studied also at the College of Europe in Bruges and have a post-graduate diploma there that we will find a way to get around and solve even these very harsh crises that we're going through right now.

>>I wanted to ask as you mentioned, Greece and Italy.

How does the EU do deal with a country like Hungary?

>>Well, I had the privilege of learning Hungarian when I entered the for-- >>I I'm asking you questions not intentionally based on your CV, but I'm glad I'm asking the right the right thing.

>>I - no, but we have as in many countries, we have democratic elections and the current government does not always sort of have the same philosophy that maybe the government that cut the the Iron Curtain in 1989 with Gyula Horne, that as a minister president of of Hungary, that were different times.

But it means also that in a couple of years you have new elections and there may be a new political current that is gaining, gaining the elections.

So this cannot be sort of the principle of ruling and living together with with the EU.

We do have some issues with the with the rule of law and the established European sort of complexity of of of legal regulations.

But we have we have other problems with other nations.

So it's a give and take.

And the commission has certain procedures how to deal with those situations.

And I'm confident, as has been the case before, that we'll find solutions there as well.

>>So you're we're talking about multilateralism.

So I have to ask you ask you about NATO.

And again, you know, NATO has been a force of stability since since its founding and post post World War Two era.

But you also had hesitation in the US part within the last decade, obviously threatening to pull out of NATO.

Where do you where do you see NATO today?

Obviously you have Joe Biden and Donald Trump with very different positions on it, which suggests one thing is, is the US reliable partner in NATO or leader of NATO?

So just those are some thoughts I'd like to hear what you have to say.

>>And well, I definitely see NATO reinforced by the current crisis and the current Russian invasion because the need is becoming even more obvious to stick together as a as a transatlantic alliance with the different capabilities that we have.

We support each other in times of peace.

Already, Germany, for example, supported any of the air defense of Estonia or some other Baltic countries.

Different troop movements and stations have been changed after the Ukraine crisis, of course.

So the coherence among NATO's, it has been strengthened through this unprovoked and totally irrational decision by Putin to invade Ukraine.

Of course, there have been discussions about modalities of how to emphasize different aspects of cooperation, but there have no have been no discussion about the fundamentals.

Article five, the mutual sort of support of anyone who is attacked will have the automatic support by all the others.

And that makes also the difference for Russia.

Obviously, they pay very close attention not to infringe upon any centimeter of NATO's territory because that would provoke NATO as a total to react.

I do think that one necessary step forward will be and has to be to bring EU and NATO closer together because there are also EU military consultation and policy mechanisms which need to be brought together closely, more closely to the NATO mechanisms.

And of course the membership is not the same.

You have different countries being being members, a key NATO ally which needs to sort of cooperate positively.

And this is Turkey.

Turkey is is a key nation in this current situation.

So that would definitely be a very important step forward if Turkey agreed or could contribute to a rapprochement between NATO and the European Union.

>>So in talking about NATO and in talking about the EU and talking about the response to the Russian invasion of Ukraine, it's strengthened both entities.

This is what you've been saying.

The question is how this this ends.

Most likely, it doesn't appear that that Vladimir Putin is going anywhere.

His sensitive his chief concern, although, you know, this doesn't justify an invasion of another country, has been about NATO's expansion, which happened despite what he did in Ukraine, in fact, because of it.

How do you deal with with Vladimir Putin?

How does Germany deal with Vladimir Putin?

>>Well, we we've learned the hard way, but possibly in Germany, we have been a little bit too naive and have been - and the Russian narrative and the different sort of cyber attacks that we've experienced are extremely important so that this narrative has sort of gained some ground also in Europe.

And so, I mean, some of the things that that the Russians have said in the beginning, they want to get rid of a fascist and anti-Semitic regime, which is totally ridiculous, knowing that President Zelensky in Ukraine is of Jewish origin, that they want to protect Russian speaking citizens in the Ukraine.

Ridiculous.

Because the first they bombed were the cities that where the Russophones phones lived in the Ukraine and and and go and go and dirty dirty bomb.

The Ukrainians are preparing a dirty bomb international experts have shown.

No.

The only way to explain this narrative is that the Russians are themselves preparing something and try to present it as something coming from Ukraine.

So this false narrative, this disinformation, is a clear preoccupation which we need to take into account.

And what Russia is doing right now, destroying critical infrastructure in the Ukraine to voluntarily creating humanitarian crises during the cold winter in the Ukraine.

This is just unacceptable in a on a human basis.

But also politically, we need to be prepared that this kind of infrastructure attacks could happen.

Also possibly one day in Western Europe.

>>We just have a few minutes left.

But but as along what we're when we're talking about the laundry list of some of the actions that the Putin, Putin and his government have taken, another one seems to be meddling in elections, whether it's European elections, which are some evidence of it or U.S. elections.

How do you stop that?

And can you deal with someone who's an, you know, an actor that's using these kinds of tactics?

>>I have a personal opinion on that, which is the Russian the impact of Russian influence in election has been minimal, even though some of the narratives have been taken up by social media, etc., which is the main way of transporting it.

It's social media which are sometimes disguised as Western media but aren't.

So my advice would be, well, learn to respect professional journalism.

Learn how to distinguish between fact and comment of the facts.

I was brought up in Berlin and being able to listen to West German television, East German television, French radio, British and US radio.

So I have had the opportunity to to see the reality is something, but the way to present reality can vary in different shades.

And we just have to educate, I think, ourselves to, to be sort of media and to to acquire a media competence to deal with this influx of multiple informations and to to pick out what is right.

>>A bigger question outside of the Ukraine context, on the global scale, where does Germany see itself today?

>>Well, Germany, I think, doesn't see itself differently than a year ago or five years ago.

The main anchor of Germany is the European Union, to be a promoter of European cooperation and integration and to go even further than some would like with majority decisions, for example, to be more effective.

Also in foreign European policy and security policy.

So that's number one.

Number two is to to contribute to international, to peaceful togetherness, and that is to help also the poorest country, the least developed countries.

We have a big, big budget for for for that and and ensuring that the rule of law is respected by everyone.

And we are we have led a couple of discussions at the United Nations and the General Assembly resolutions were recently 143 member states of the United Nations condemned the Russian aggression, annexation or alleged annexation.

And that, in part is also due to German diplomacy.

>>Mr.

Consul General, thank you so much for joining us today.

We really, really appreciate your thoughts.

>>Thank you very much for having me.

>>And thank you for joining us.

We'll see you again next week on another episode of Global Perspectives.