(upbeat music) >>I'm Darryl Owens.
Welcome to "A World of Difference: Embracing Neurodiversity."
For parents, hearing that their child has learning and attention issues can hit like a Mack truck.
Yet, that initial impact can be multiplied later because mental health issues often ride shotgun to a neurodivergent diagnosis.
Indeed, research published in the Journal of the Canadian Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry found nearly 24% of youngsters with a specific learning disorder suffer severe anxiety.
Another study found that severe depression plagues more than 14% of children and adolescents with specific learning disorders.
Additional research concluded 17% of children with learning and attention issues are dogged by severe stress, while 75% register low resilience levels.
Blame bullying, awkward social relationships, limited coping skills, and more, but taken together for children battling on both fronts, coping with learning differences and challenges to mental health, the tension can leave them vulnerable to psychiatric issues and undercut their ability to learn, foster relationships, and overcome obstacles.
However, there is much families can do to support neurodivergent kids before and after mental health challenges arise.
On this episode, we meet a freshman college student with attention issues who is acing the test when it comes to confronting mental health challenges.
Next, our expert panel provides tips and strategies to identify red flags and respond positively to help children before or after mental health issues take root.
Later, we'll introduce you to our latest difference maker, a prominent physician whose chance of ever wearing the white coat was flatlining until he received his own neurodivergent diagnosis.
First, HealthDay Special Correspondent Mabel Jong goes one-on-one with an up-and-comer at Spelman College in Atlanta who has added tools to her tool belt to help herself and others like her build a fortress to withstand challenges to anxiety and depression.
(upbeat music) >>19-year-old Jordan Greene is a freshman at Spelman College in Atlanta with hopes of practicing law one day.
She wants to focus on education reform and disability law, inspired in part by her own experiences with neurodivergence and associated mental health challenges.
>>In fifth grade, I just, I felt like I kind of hit this wall academically.
I was usually like a pretty good A/B student.
But all of a sudden, it was hard for me to pay attention in class, remember what was taught, and focus, and I didn't understand why.
>>Jordan was tested for a learning disability and was told she had attention-deficit/ hyperactivity disorder.
>>I was diagnosed with ADHD.
And ever since then, I've kind of been on this journey of learning to embrace it and work with it throughout all the highs and lows that's kind of come with that.
>>What came with that initially was confusion about what the diagnosis implied.
>>So I didn't understand what it meant to have ADHD or what a learning disability really was.
So I felt really confused and just not confident in myself.
I thought it meant that I wasn't smart, or that I wasn't good enough, or there was something wrong with me, but really I just learn differently.
And once I kind of understood that and got it in my head, it took me on a really, really creative journey throughout the process.
>>Along with navigating her neurodivergence, Jordan experienced mental health challenges common among neurodivergent students, including anxiety and depression.
>>I think a lot of people don't know that 50% of people with ADHD also have generalized anxiety disorder.
And that was not apparent for me until freshman year of high school.
Out of nowhere, I just, like, I started experiencing tremendous feelings of anxiety and depressive episodes, and I didn't understand why 'cause I never experienced that before.
>>The process included understanding how to facilitate success in the classroom with additional resources in middle school, and then, in high school.
>>My parents and I met with my teachers and we discussed like my accommodations plan and how that worked.
And for me, we decided that tutoring would be like a really good resource for me.
So I think I've had a math tutor since I was in fifth grade because that's like what helps me with that.
But some other support that I received was extra time on tests, taking tests in a separate environment, getting a math tutor, and sometimes just having to like meet with my teacher one-on-one for certain projects.
>>And when it came time to apply for college, she had to work through the old fears.
>>I didn't think I was good enough to get into the schools I wanted to because I had that insecurity of me kind of being the slow kid in class and always like, you know, the person that's finishes last and everything like that.
But in reality, like I've worked really hard to get my grades up and to be almost a straight A student.
But that time was really hard because it was also hard managing so many different things, managing applications, and schools, and extracurriculars.
I was like, "How am I gonna do it all?"
But I didn't do it alone.
I got with my parents and made a plan together, and they helped hold me accountable in that.
But it was a little bit stressful because I just didn't know like what I should put in essays and like how I should write.
But I definitely gave myself the time to think about how to plan everything out.
>>And now in college, Jordan continues deploying the strategies that work and this time without the hand holding from her family.
>>In the beginning of the semester, I get to class early to kind of like claim my seat.
And I make it so that I am in the front row of those classes because it helps me pay attention.
Also, my ADHD makes it really hard for me to remember things, especially short term.
So in classes, sometimes I'll have a recorder out to record lectures or make sure that I get a copy of the notes before I leave so that I can make sure that I really got everything in class.
>>Jordan has also had to navigate different needs outside the classroom.
She says ADHD brought on anxiety attacks and depressive episodes.
And stress can crop up anywhere.
>>I had a lot of anxiety in social settings, and that is new for me.
I'm a very outgoing and bubbly person.
But I would, literally, get physically sick before school because that's how nervous I was for what the day would hold.
I would be so nervous and just dreading what the week would hold that I would cry on Sundays because Monday was coming.
Because Monday meant I have to go to school again.
I have to study again.
I have to be the slow kid in class again.
And that's not an experience that I would recommend for anybody, but it's kind of cool to see how far you can come.
'Cause now I kind of enjoy going to school.
I like to learn.
Like, it's fun for me.
But in that time, I just really dreaded going because it meant like a new hurdle and a new obstacle every single day.
>>Jordan recalled a particularly tense experience she had during a high school basketball game.
Jordan, what was that like playing on a team?
>>In one game, we had a little timeout, and my coach drew up a play.
We got back out on the court and I was like, "Wait, what did he just say?"
I was like, "Wait, where, where am I supposed to go?"
My teammates were like, "Jordan, like we just went over this," and they got really upset with me.
And I was like, "Y'all like what do I go again?"
And this is like a game winning like play, right?
And I was supposed to go in for the layup, and I forgot I was supposed to.
And I ended up like missing a pass completely.
>>How to come back from losses is part of Jordan's message to others living with neurodiversity.
She's written books on her early experiences with ADHD and is active on her college campus fostering a better understanding of the condition.
>>There are definitely misconceptions.
Some people think that we just can't learn, or we're slow, or we're super hyperactive, or super quiet.
And it gets a little frustrating after a while.
I realize that sometimes people say that because they simply don't know.
>>Throughout her journey as a student living with ADHD, Jordan has learned that the diagnosis is not something you grow out of.
Rather, it is something you learn to work with, and perhaps even, grow to appreciate.
>>It's given me such a great perspective on life, and I get to inspire other kids who have ADHD to embrace their own selves and to embrace their abilities.
So I absolutely love that I have the ADHD.
It makes me who I am, and I'm so proud of it.
>>For "A World of Difference", I'm Mabel Jong.
(upbeat music) >>Thanks, Mabel.
Next, our panel of experts drills down on supporting the mental health of children with learning and attention issues.
(upbeat music) Dr. Melissa Boduch serves as a Lead Learning Specialist and Academic Advisor at the Center of Student Success at Beacon College in Leesburg, Florida.
Boduch specializes in providing academic support, identifying and implementing research-based interventions, and facilitating self-advocacy.
Prior to Beacon, she logged 19 years as a middle and high school special education teacher.
Dr. Wanda M. Hadley is an Associate Professor of Higher Education Leadership, Educational Leadership, Research and Technology at Western Michigan University.
She received the 2017 American College Personnel Association's Disability Leadership Award for her research and scholarship about students with learning disabilities.
Dr. Holly Schiff is a Licensed Clinical Psychologist practicing in Connecticut, New York, and Rhode Island and works at South County Psychiatry.
She specializes in treating children, adolescents, and young adults and also conducts neuropsychological evaluations and psychoeducational assessments while working closely with schools and universities.
And we're going to actually start our conversation with Dr. Schiff.
Let's clarify from the start, are specific learning disabilities the same thing as mental illness?
>>Yeah, so I'm so glad that you asked that because, you know, this is such a common misconception.
So specific learning disorders are not synonymous with mental illness, and you can't use the terms interchangeably.
However, mental illness and learning disorders often do co-occur, and they share lots of the same features.
But learning disorders are neurologically based, and so they affect an individual's ability to process information.
So thereby, it's going to have an impact on how they learn, understand, communicate, and remember information.
So learning disorders occur as a product of the brain kind of deviating operationally from the norm.
So there's some faulty wiring in specific areas of the brain.
So learning disorders can't be cured since they're neurologically based, but we can minimize and sometimes even eliminate the impact if appropriate interventions and supports are provided early on.
So these kids have the mental machinery to do well and the intellectual capacity to perform, but because of how their brains receive and process information, they usually struggle to accomplish tasks.
And that's why you see them have more trouble in school and life in general.
>>Thank you.
Well, Dr. Boduch, if mental illness and learning disabilities aren't synonymous, why does research suggest that children with learning disabilities have higher rates of mental mental illness?
>>Oh, thanks for asking.
That's a great question.
Because when you do think about our students and as they're functioning, life is hard, right?
They're already having some struggles that are in place for them.
Life is hard.
Learning is hard.
Communication is hard.
Socialization is hard.
That's life, right?
Life in general is hard.
This takes a toll on anyone, let alone someone who has a learning disability.
This makes it even more difficult for them.
You've got academic stress.
They have trouble learning.
So because of all of those impacts, this will hinder their physical and their mental health.
When you think about it, these are also the kiddos who, you know, they get the upset stomach because, oh my gosh, going to school is hard for them.
So that plays a part into it.
They start becoming much more aware that they're different than their peers.
And as they start getting further in their school years, that gap becomes bigger and their feeling of self-worth starts getting really impacted at that point.
Oftentimes, just like my co-panelists talked about, there's a co-occurring conditions, right?
So then, that requires the parent and the professional to kind of know what is impacting the student at that time.
And maybe it's both of those disorders are impacting them at that time, but maybe it's not.
So maybe you need to be able to figure out which strategy do you need to use now to get them through this hump that they've got going on right now.
We do tend to see some rates of greater depression and anxiety in some of these children, which plays a part into how they perceive themselves.
So sometimes we're also looking at motivation.
So when we look at some of the levels of dopamine in there, you've got that pleasure chemical that's at play.
If they have a low dosage of that, then they don't have a lot of motivation.
And if learning is hard, and you don't have a lot of motivation to do it, because learning is hard, you've got this cycle that keeps going and going and going.
So you can see how all of these factors could play a role in their mental health.
>>Thank you for that.
Dr. Hadley, from an early age, can you talk, tell us a little bit about some of the common challenges that children with learning differences encounter?
>>Being viewed as learning differently and even showing some of those behaviors outside of the norm may possibly, depending on the age of the student, have them view themselves as differently and starting to do this comparing and contrasting kind of thing that's normal to do.
And what could then be an issue is they are, again, showing signs of depression, possibly acting out, and other kind of deviant behavior.
This notion of trying to be themselves, but yet and still trying to fit in.
>>All right, well thank you.
Well, Dr. Boduch, are children with learning disabilities more vulnerable to criticism or is it that they receive more criticism because of their failures in schools because of their learning differences?
>>That's a great question.
And I really did spend some time thinking about that because I think initially that's true, right?
When you have a new school year and you've got a new teacher, you're getting to know each other.
So that relationship and that trust hasn't been built yet.
But as a student starts feeling more safe, they're willing to take more academic risks and social risks.
So then, you'll see that their growth will start coming, right?
It's so easy to focus on the negative, right?
Everybody notices what's going wrong, but sometimes it takes a special person or a different perspective to see the positive that's going on.
And our students have unique needs, and they have unique behaviors.
And that relationship that the educator's going to build with them will help them figure out what strategies, what interventions.
Could they be used to help them be successful?
One of the things I think we also need to be aware of is that they have challenges and strengths at the same time.
So being able to pay attention to what's going on with their strengths and challenges and build off of that.
I mean, and we also need to be honest, too, right, that data drives a lot of our schools.
Data drives the IEP.
Data drives funding.
Data drives just about everything.
So we can't ignore that factor.
So then therefore, we are paying attention to some of the struggles that they have a little bit more because we need those numbers.
We want to track the progress.
Watch the full Ask The Experts segment on our website at awodtv.org if you want to learn more about nerodiversity in the workforce.
You can also watch or listen on Facebook, YouTube, or on your favorite podcasting platform.
(bright music) Next, let's reveal our latest difference maker.
When you're born into a family in which your grandfather and father are doctors and your mother is a nurse, it's a good bet that playing doctor may lie in your future.
Yet, once John Rhodes was placed in a special education class in elementary school, the possibility that he would follow their footsteps into medicine seemed a long shot at best.
And the writing was on the wall, only he struggled mightily to read it.
It was only after he bombed the SAT, struggled through college, and overcame low test scores to get into medical school, that at almost age 30, the would-be doctor was diagnosed.
He had dyslexia.
Armed with knowledge and the testing accommodations he desperately needed, Rhodes passed his licensing exams and earned his white coat.
That his winding journey took a whole lot of heart, only makes sense for the man who, today, is one of America's leading cardiologist.
Senior Correspondent Cindy Peterson brings us his story.
(upbeat music) >>Dr.
John Rhodes, one of the nation's top cardiologists who has helped pioneer some of the most innovative techniques in the industry, almost didn't get into medical school when he scored a one on his MCAT reading.
Today, he works as the Operations Director for the Congenital Heart Center at the Medical University of South Carolina in Charleston.
But his journey to the top has been far from easy.
Since an early age, he struggled with reading and found it more difficult than the other kids his age.
>>I knew when I heard my mom talking to the teacher that there was some sort of problem, because that was a news flash to me that my little brother could read all the books in the house and I couldn't read any.
I just thought he couldn't play sports, and I could.
But unfortunately, it wasn't quite that way.
And so I always knew that I had my own struggles, but I never really thought of myself as any different than anyone else.
I did have to go to special teaching to learn how to read on the weekends when I really wanted to play football in the streets.
But I would do that with my mom.
And I've known from a long time, but I've just tried to work around it, rather than maybe embracing it.
>>With a long history of medical professionals in his family, John knew that that was a path he wanted to take.
While he got through school relatively well, there were three letters standing in his way of going to college, SAT.
>>If someone tells me I need to take a test, I know there's trouble ahead.
The the first test was the SAT, and I did exceedingly poor on the SAT.
There was a person who worked at North Carolina State, he was the registrar at North Carolina State, Mr. Bundy, and he recognized that I was smart.
I just did poorly on the SAT.
So he figured out a way to get me the opportunity to get accepted to North Carolina State under sort of a program where as long as I did well in the first year, I would stay there.
But if I did poorly, I would have to move on.
But I made good grades.
>>What John didn't know is that he was actually struggling with dyslexia, a learning difference that causes him to mix up letters and words.
Often he would read sentences three or four times over to make sure he read it correctly, which as you can imagine, made studying that much more difficult.
>>Authors love to use words that I'm not familiar with, and often I just sit there with the phone and look up the words, or I reread the sentences to make sure that I got the context of the sentence correct and understood what they were trying to tell me.
But I'm just used to doing that.
I don't know any other way.
>>In order to get into medical school, John would have to pass the MCAT exam.
And as with all tests, for John, that was going to pose a problem.
>>Whenever I have to take a standardized test, that can be a problem.
So on the MCAT, I scored a one on the reading section of the MCAT.
I always tell people I scored a zero because, technically, a one doesn't add a lot of points to your total score.
So it's like getting zero points to your total score.
But, technically, the average MCAT score is somewhere around 25, 26.
Now the MCATs have changed.
It's not the same today, the way the scoring is, as it was when I took it.
I got 25 on the MCAT on two sections instead of three.
So I actually scored the national average, but I just did so poorly on the one section that the med schools were, you know, appropriately afraid that maybe I wouldn't be able to do the work.
>>John worked with a reading specialist to help read more efficiently, which got him up to a score of six.
>>But unfortunately, six was not the national average score.
And a lot of the, a lot of the med schools, they have a lot of applications and a lot of really good strong applications.
So they have to come up with ways to figure out who they're going to interview and not.
And with a score that was less than the national average, they chose not to interview.
Brody School of Medicine really went out on a limb to help me.
>>But medical school proved to be one hurdle after another until one professor took notice of John.
>>When I had to take the USMLE, I barely passed the first one, but I passed with no help.
And then, you have to take the second USMLE.
There's multiple tests that you have to take.
I struggle with the reading on that one, and I only failed it by a bit, but I failed it.
And that's when my other professor that I work with, Dr. Ector, noticed me and pointed out that he thinks I have dyslexia and other learning disabilities.
And he got me tested, and he was right.
So he got me extended time on the USMLE test, and I went back and finished in the top percentile national.
So I knew it.
I just couldn't read it fast enough.
>>Now, not only did John find out why he had reading difficulties all these years, but he also found his strengths.
>>The psychologist that tested me when I was 29 told me that I scored in the top percentile for visual spatial resolution.
His point was, don't focus on the fact that you can't spell the word physician.
Focus on the fact that this is your strength.
And then you take that and go forward.
So Dr. Ector and I talked about it, and I came up with going into cardiology where I use imaging that I'm very good at.
>>So much so that John does something very unique when explaining conditions to his patients.
Since he is a visual learner, he draws out their heart with the defect in it, explaining to them their issues and what the procedure will correct.
He even signs it, and then gives it to them.
From 2003 to 2013, he was the Chief of Duke University's Children's Heart Center, Director of the Pediatric and Adult Congenital Interventional Catheterization Laboratory, and Co-Director of the Adult Congenital Heart Program.
Ironically, Duke University was one of the schools that denied him an interview into med school.
John went on to work at Nicklaus Children's Health System in Miami and eventually returned to the Medical University of South Carolina in 2017.
>>I don't believe that any of this is anything more than just a different way of learning.
And I believe that people like me are just as smart and maybe a little more creative.
>>In an effort to reach other kids like himself, John has started a shadowing program for kids with learning differences so they can see firsthand that success is achievable with a little extra effort.
For "A World of Difference, I'm Cindy Peterson.
(upbeat music) >>Thanks, Cindy.
And congratulations, Dr. John Rhodes, for making a difference.
And that does it for this edition of "A World of Difference: Embracing Neurodiversity."
I'm Darryl Owens.
I'll see you back here next time.
You can watch episodes of "A World of Difference" on the Beacon College Facebook and YouTube channels and on the show's website, http://awodtv.org.
The website also provides tip sheets and other resources for your parenting journey.
You can watch the show from the PBS app, available on your favorite streaming device, and you can listen on your favorite podcasting platform.
Thank you for watching and supporting "A World of Difference."
